New Quiz. Marks on coins.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, Sep 28, 2020.

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  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    physics-fan3.14, posted: "Come on man. :rage: You post a quiz and make a big deal of it [???big deal??? I think the :bigtears::bigtears::bigtears: and jokers made this so, not me :angelic:.] and have no idea what caused it yourself? That's not a quiz. :eek::confused: That's an exercise in frustration for everyone who's hoping to learn something here. You know I'm one of your biggest fans and defenders, but this is just whack."

    Get off your :stinkyfeet: soapbox and post some ideas. I've been called a snarky, conceited, know-it-all who tries to embarrass folks. This is another of my "IN-YOUR-FACE" examples that's prove those :wacky::bigtears::bigtears: members don't have a clue about my intentions because they cannot understand my defense written in plain English. You see, I don't know everything. :p

    I realize that you don't have full pics of the coin... but do you perhaps have other examples of the same issue?

    Yes, I'll need to find them. I guarantee a few members here will post some before I do. Just look at your dollars.

    What pushed you towards a strike through or planchet defect instead of some very old damage that has toned over similar to the rest of the coin?

    Experience.
     
    Insider, Oct 1, 2020
    #81 + Quote Reply
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Is it ? What folks should learn from this is that sometimes, maybe even a lot of times, there just isn't any definitive answer as to how marks got there or what caused them. The best you do is guess.

    It could have easily been caused while the planchet strip was being rolled out. But debris embedded in the rollers ? I doubt that seeing as how they are hardened steel. But fine debris falling onto the stirp as it runs through the machine ? Given the nature of rolling mills - all kinds of which can be seen here https://www.google.ca/search?q=rolling+mill+machine&lr=&sa=X&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Y9E6KiI6DS537M%2CkL44T_wmvR_oyM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSoeqhSdqtz-byy4dqj-C_apwK7fw&ved=2ahUKEwj51szD0pPsAhVFTt8KHaQcBMUQ9QF6BAgDEF0#imgrc=Y9E6KiI6DS537M - I'd guess that would be almost an hourly occurrence.

    And the various things that "can happen" in a rolling mill, the sheer number of them can boggle the mind. Several different examples, and some similar to what Insider posted, can be seen here -
    https://www.coinworld.com/news/prec...he-rolling-mill-collectors-clearinghouse.html

    And even more extreme examples here -
    http://www.error-ref.com/rolling-mill-errors-rolling-indentation/

    But all of this is only one of many, many possibilities as to how the marks occurred and what caused them.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 1, 2020
    #82 + Quote Reply
  4. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    I think physics' point is that if the answer is "it could have been anything", then it is not informative and is a pointless exercise.
     
    CoinCorgi, Oct 1, 2020
    #83 + Quote Reply
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That depends on one's perspective. As someone who has spent his whole life studying coins, I'd have to say that learning that a lot of the time there just isn't an answer, and why there can't be - is one of the most valuable things I ever learned.

    It's kind like how selling coins, is what teaches you how to buy them. Which in the opinion of many, many very esteemed numismatists, is another of the most valuable things you can ever learn ;)
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 1, 2020
    #84 + Quote Reply
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Experience? That too is a rub-it-in-the-face answer from Mr. Troll. :troll: I confess to being just a little tired :grumpy: of all the snark around here lately and enjoy dishing it back.

    I thought I answered your question already. When there is something - any kind of mark** on a planchet, two things can happen - three things - when the planchet is struck.

    **A mark can be damage to the planchet or something impressed into the planchet. Grease or moisture does not count as they can be wiped off the planchet before it is struck.

    1. The mark is obliterated.
    2. Some of the mark is obliterated.
    3. None of the mark is obliterated.

    In case #1, we don't know it was there. In cases #2 and #3 we can see it.

    The marks into the coin under the chin and the marks on the chin are "clean." There is no evidence of what made them left on the coin. We only see the results. When you examine any type of planchet defect that is "clean" under high (my images) magnification, the inside of the mark is similar in color to the unstruck surface of the original planchet because the die did not touch that part of the planchet.

    That's how I know (experience) the two types of marks in this QUIZ were on the original planchet, NOT PMD, and not obliterated from the strike.
     
    Insider, Oct 1, 2020
    #85 + Quote Reply
  7. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    So both subjects of the quiz are marks on the planchet? But I thought one of the marks was due to a strike through debris left on the die
     
    CoinCorgi, Oct 1, 2020
    #86 + Quote Reply
  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Not to threadjack, but yeah:

     
    -jeffB, Oct 1, 2020
    #87 + Quote Reply
    KBBPLL likes this.
  9. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Am I missing something? I assume so cause I made Socrate's iggy list :)
     
    CoinCorgi, Oct 1, 2020
    #88 + Quote Reply
  10. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

     
    CoinCorgi, Oct 1, 2020
    #89 + Quote Reply
    Lehigh96 likes this.
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