What is a counterfeit?

I posted my quote/opinion early on if you look as per the request in the initial post by the OP. This thread was derailed long before my last post.

 

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I did read your post...the problem is you are incorrect. Counterfeit can be an adjective...but it can also be a noun or a verb. A noun describes an object...no action is needed.

 

I've been watching this thread with amusement but not as much as Monty Python's "The Argument"....



BTW, the OP's original question asked for a definition of "...a counterfeit" which means he was asking for the noun's definition, strictly speaking. But then he confused the issue by providing a definition for the verb. Oh, this language of ours, both silly and sublime.

 

It describes an object that is intended to deceive. Lights coming on yet?

one more time
It takes the intent of a person, which is what almost every definition I saw (and didn’t question) said. There is no such thing as a counterfeit sitting on MY desk even if you think the same object on your desk is counterfeit. The only exceptions would be the one I mentioned that you read and when I have evidence in a counterfeit case on my desk in between a guilty verdict and it’s destruction, which has happened a grand total of never. I have had to sign off on their packing for destruction a few times though.
So unless you have something new I think I have explained this to you in enough ways...

 

Don’t get me wrong I appreciated you quoting wiki although it’s quite liberal to claim it’s an opinion.

 

I wrote quote/opinion as that was what was requested by the OP. Either/or. I chose to quote wiki as it reflected my opinion the closest

 

And then you proceeded to complain that there was blood on the sausage factory floor so to speak.
I’m sorry if the process of figuring out the hard cases makes you queasy.

 

You are 100% wrong. The word "counterfeit" when used as a noun describes an object. No action is needed. My Henning Nickel is a counterfeit nickel...even without me trying to spend it. That's a fact. You can argue against it all you like...but that doesn't make you any less wrong.

My Henning Nickel was a fake coin manufactured to be used in commerce. It is a counterfeit coin. It was the day it was made, it was the day it was spent, and it is today. Its status does not change based on how/what it's being used for right now. It has always been and always will be a counterfeit...a fake which was made to deceive someone into thinking it is real.

 

There was no figuring out to be done. The OP gave us a simple task. Provide an attributed quote or your opinion, kept short. My post you are referring to was to state the obvious about this subject and the fact it always goes off track almost immediately.

 

TVO, posted: "As far as the piece. You said it was a piece intended to deceive. By whom to whom how do you know? That’s the whole point, YOU might intent to deceive people but not every owner would and those owners don’t own a counterfeit they own a replica."

Do you even know what a "Henning" nickel is? If you do, what is it? Did the man who made them break any law?

 

Ill take the last one first.
Yes I know it is a nickel that was not made like a reg nickel of the time and was then found out pretty easy.
From my reading he did beak the law.
Now expand youR mind and tell me if I own one does it have to be counterfeit, meaning with intent to deceive? Can it be a replica in a case that says replica and therefore no intent to deceive? What about just in a bag that said Henning nickel?
What if I do not know it is mixed in with coins I am intending to use? Point is it is not counterfeit if my intent is not counterfeit because.... well I said it a million times and all I get back are “you are wrong” or bad analogies or some dude trying to impress me with his GT JD.

If any coin that is fake can be, or is, a counterfeit why is intent to deceive in the definition?
Why have the words replica and counterfeit if all fake coins are counterfeit?
Is a fake coin (or a replica) a fake (or replica) until someone tries to pass it and then it is forever a counterfeit?

 

Again hard questions are messy. If the OP really wanted a dic or wiki definition they are widely available. This isn’t off track just because you don’t like watching pigs getting killed and ground up.

 

The fact may be that it is called a Henning counterfeit nickel or what ever it is called. That does not make it a fact that you have a counterfeit nickel. You have a counterfeited nickel. It’s now just an oddity or a historical piece, unless you try and pass it. Think about it. Who calls it a counterfeit? Coin people and coin people are still asking what a counterfeit is in 2020 and then getting all tongue tied when they try and define them all. Maybe because you all know coins and not fraud? I’m not confused about what a counterfeit is and I only collect coins on the margins. Which is why I would never think to tell you what was and wasn’t a fact about reeds or VAMs and whatnot.
I will ask you again, are the lights going on yet?

 

Wow, I'm glad I didn't read this whole thread.

 

You're really not making your point. Trying to force a distorted view of semantics and common use language isn't working.

Z

 

Lights have been on the whole time. You are wrong...it's that simple. The word counterfeit is commonly used as a noun. If you don't know what a noun is, I suggest you look it up.

But, I'm tired of discussing this with you. I suspect you're nothing more than a forum troll.

 

What part is confusing you? That a coin can move from replica to counterfeit? If you can’t get over that then that is a problem.

 

One more time: the noun refers to the adjective which includes fraud in the definition. A definition none of us dispute. And you can say what I just said which is that you all commonly use the word to refer to coin nobody is intending to use for fraud, which is wrong, but that is not helping your take.
I get that you are frustrated, welcome to L1.
If you don’t know what that means Virginian can fill you in.
Have a nice rest of your weekend.

 

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Once an item is manufactured to deceive, it is a counterfeit. Subsequent ownership does NOT change the intent of the manufacturer.

Z