Are these the same coin?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by maridvnvm, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    i have recently lost my direction again and after missing out on a whole host of coins I was interested at a recent auction went and bought a batch of coins that are not core to my collection. I really must stop doing that.

    I have been researching one of them and it turns out that it could be quite a scarce one.

    Tacitus Antoninianus

    Obv:– M CL TACITVS AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– CLEMENTIA TEMP, Mars in military dress standing left, holding olive branch in right hand, spear and shield which rests on ground in left hand..
    Minted in Cyzicus (//S). Issue 1, Officina 2. November – December A.D. 275
    Reference(s) – Cohen -. LV -. RIC -. BNC p.404. RIC temp #3879 (1 example cited)

    [​IMG]

    In fact there appears to only be one example on MER RIC.

    http://www.ric.mom.fr/en/coin/3879

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    My initial reaction was - "Oh great. They appear to be a double die match!" but then I looked at the details and they have the same flan shape and wear pattern. The MER RIC example if from a private collection and so it could be that it has been sold and made it's way through to my collection.

    What do you think? The same coin?
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I'm pretty sure it is the same coin, congrats. It's a nice one.
     
    TIF likes this.
  4. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    There seems to be a scratch just above the diadem. I don't collect romans so I have no idea if that photo is of the coin or of a plaster cast?!
     
    TIF likes this.
  5. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Same coin, retouched on the black and white photo.
     
  6. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I was thinking that the other could indeed be a photo of a plaster cast.
     
    Broucheion, dougsmit and medoraman like this.
  7. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    The black and white photo definitely is missing a touch of detail than the color photo, (edge of beads on both sides) . You well could be right sir. On the cast they filed away what they thought was residue but lost details of the original.
     
  8. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Thats pretty cool
     
  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Looks like it was the same coin. Agree with the cast hypothesis and some re-touching.
     
  10. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    I'd also go with the cast of your coin hypothesis. The T and A of TACITVS have the exact same wear without the surrounding surface corrosion present on the real coin.
     
  11. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    Yes, it's the same coin.

    Casts were often made prior to modern, especially digital, photography because they allowed photos to be shot with coins of uniform color and both sides at the same time.

    The key to comparing photos is to a) look for the major similarities such as strike and same dies b) look for some defining characteristic such as edge flaws, scrapes, die damage, etc and c) make sure that there is not more detail on the cast than the actual coin. c) is the killer where you will find just a hint of border dots in a place that doesn't exist on the actual coin which makes a match impossible. I've had my hopes of an old provenance dashed by finding a wee bit more detail on the cast than my coin which eliminated possibility of the match.

    On your coin, you can see some defining edge anomalies that match especially on the reverse at 3-4h.
     
  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...i'd say its a spot on match/copy...kool! :)
     
  13. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    I agree with the posters above. Great coin!

    I have a similar coin (not as pretty), it doesn’t have the interesting obverse legend and is of a different mint... but it’s something similar and fun to post. The obverse is ugly but the reverse is great.

    TacitusRIC__.jpg

    Tacitus, AE antoninianus. Serdica mint. IMP CM CL TACITVS AVG, radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right. CLEMENTIA TEMP, Mars standing left, holding olive branch, spear and shield. Officina letter P in exergue. Estiot 3861, Rare.
     
    thejewk, Edessa, Alegandron and 4 others like this.
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

  15. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    If you are going the get distracted by non-core coins - that is a great way to do it! Same coin, congratulations, an excellent find.
     
  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I agree -- it's the same coin as in the photo of the plaster cast. What a cool find, @maridvnvm ! You should send your photo of the coin to the editors of MER-RIC.
     
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