Future of this Hobby

Counterfieting will always be with the hobby. And it has always been there. There were counterfiets 200 years ago, probably to a greater extent than today. Some might say today's technology enables counterfieters to make better examples, but this isn't true. They were using state of the art technology, or the same methods the Mint was using since the beginning, so their products have remained modern and relevent from the earliest times. It hasn't seemed to destroy the hobby in the 2000+ years the world has minted coinage and counterfieters have been there all along, so I doubt a few Chinese will have any greater impact today.
Guy~

 

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Like you would be if this was doctored some and photographed under different lighting? I highly doubt that the average (to above average) collector looking for a 1936-D to fill a spot in their album would ever have counterfeit cross their mind to even think to analyze what they're looking at. But obviously, they're out there.

So your theory is that people should mainly only collect stuff that nobody's ever seen before? Abandon the U.S. coin market to solve the problem?

 

Same seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Replica-1904-S-BARBER-DIME-COPY_W0QQitemZ250344713679QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item250344713679&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Can anybody here tell me that if somebody had 25 or 50 of these (90% silver replicas) in a pile, without the stamps, that you could spot these fakes in an auction?

I couldn't. I might be leary of all the full Liberty's once I got them.

Then look at that statement. What if somebody does have a real roll of them, uncirculated with full Libertys. Now they're suspect of being counterfeit. How do you tell the difference?

 

It works for me. :goofer:

Now that one is a tough piece. I've seen a lot of Barber dimes with that black toning that usually clues me in to a counterfeit. I suppose that, if fakes such as these become more common, collectors WILL have to be more cautious, even around common date coins. Perhaps this is how the hobby will change.

 

did say that, but i don't collect much US, mostly Canadian and Icelandic.

-Steve

 

Yeah, but the stuff me and you collect (ancients) are far more advanced in counterfeits already. I can't tell the difference (unless it is a obvious cast) until I PM you to tell me if it is a fake. If it gets like that with the US hobby, then..that will be very scary.


stailess

 

As of late, I believe that some of the better fakes are of US coins coming from some Chinese sources...some of the Morgan Dollars coming to the market are real good and seem more convincing to me than most ancient fakes I see...

 

fake coins and etc

i'm waiting for the soon to come day that someone makes a deal with some chinaman and buys up a few thousand coins. have them shipped to the U.S. and they turn up at a coin show or on ebay.

I have bought a few diamond / gold rings from China just to see what they are. Fake. these china sellers had 100% good feadback and today they are no longer on ebay. all this has happened since thanksgiving.

 

impossible question to answer without Nostradamus.

 

Thanks Doug, for something positive (not sarcasm). I started gettting bummed out thinking my favorite hobby is undersiege. It seems everything is suspect nowadays. I like the new NGC slabs as apparently they are hard to counterfeit. I'm not sure why, but that's what NGC says. I guess they are tamper proof as some people remove the coins and put in fakes?? Does this happen. How do they make fakes. Does anyone have more photos of genuine next to fake coins for learning sake?

 

Hello dprice7,

If you can attend the ANA summer session, there are classes that teach how to identify fakes. There is also an ANA correspondence course available. As part of the correspondence course, you will receive some books describing some methods of making counterfeits along with sample photos. If you are a member of the ANA, you may borrow books & videos on the subject (and any subject).

Very best regards,
collect89

 

Such things should be readily available to all...

 

Many people have always thought this way.

And they have always been wrong. Every time.

How many times have I been told "the hobby is completely ruined" ? The entire nation is falling apart ? We're all gonna starve to death ? The entire planet is melting down ?

How many times will "Peter cry wolf" before we see it for what is is ? Hysteria.

Don't get me wrong... counterfeits are a serious issue. A very serious issue.

But as an engineer - and as an American - I don't see "serious problems" as "the end".

We confront problems and deal with them. Always have. Always will. :thumb:

 

Where's the Roman Empire these days? Things change. Just because things are ok for 50 years while we're here doesn't mean they will remain that way.

 

We're at the point now that it takes a 150x, or better, microscope to detect the better counterfeits. Given that only a very small number of collectors or dealers have such equipment. this means that counterfeit and genuine coins are, for all practical purposes, undetectable and interchangeable in the marketplace.

If the counterfeit is indistinguishable from a genuine coin, what's the difference? If one is the same as the other then the fake becomes real.

It's not like a fake Rolex watch that's gold plated on the outside and has Timex works inside. It's more like a fake Rolex made of solid gold and has a real Rolex movement inside. It does everything the real one does, at a lower price.

 

All are focused on the counterfeit issue. No agreement or disagreement with my statement above?

 

I am fine with less collectors, so no worries there...the less people I must compete with for the coins I want, the better. Never understood the drive a collector has to attract new collectors...seller I understand...collectors are just attracting new people to outbid you.

As for the hard money vs electronic...I agree completely. With the rise of paper money, coins eventually turned into cheap tokens, people dont care about producing great examples of coins any more...so we have already seen the quality of most world coins go to a real low...a chuck e cheese token is more appealing than most world coins.

Now with electronic payment (and I know a lot of people are like me, they use it for everything and many dont even use cash let alone coins) I think you are right, that coins are going to be less and less important...already they just seem like a necessary evil to many.

The age of the coin, and certainly the zenith of coining has passed...new coins are hardly worth collecting and so we collect relics of a different age when coins were made of bronze, silver and gold and people with real artisic ability and skilled engravers created outstanding works of art for circulation coins. People will always collect those I think.

 

There will always be people who will collect coins as antiques, the same way some people now collect oil lamps or button hooks. To some, it will be a way to connect to the past. To some, it is a way to have something that not many others have. To some, coins are collectable art. Come to think about it, these are the reasons we collect now. I don't see any change in the future.

And, we can thank (aarrrgh) the US Mint for their efforts in drawing in new collectors with the State Quarters, Westward Journey Nickels, Presidential Dollars and future series. Although we sophisticates often view these with distain, they will entice younger generations to get into the hobby. It can be overdone though, as with Philatelics.

 

Descendants of the people that comprised the Roman Empire are still around. Many people think Italy has a fairly high standard of living. Same with Gaul / France.