We'll I never.........

That fraud is CAC and its been explained in detail how their marketing is a classic fraud. Say what you want, and think what you want, but it is fraud. Their profit margin is directly proportional to the amount of fear and loathing they can instill in anyone who doesn't use there service ... period. There is no other service they provide.

CAC is as much a fraud as a three card montey scam on Broadway. And frankly if it upset you that I've said that and extrapolated on that based on clear and proved economic facts which have been historically established through statistical analysis though the 500 years of science of economics..so be it. Your going to hear more and more of this clap trap as things go along because in a free economy money talks and nonsense walks.

I don't care if Abe Lincoln and Moses was running this three card monty game, when the hard cash rolls in with increasing fear paralyzing the open coin market, CAC will just lay down the hammer even harder.

CAC aint doing this for altruistic reasons. It is about the bucks and their money stream is directly related to the degree of doubt they can cause in the minds of the participants of the graded coin market..and they provide NO OTHER service.

If they think they can grade coins better than PCGS then they should just crack open those slabs and put them in their own slabs with a grade. But they won't do that because then the market would show just how good they're grading really is when their accuracy is reflected in the prices of their slabbed coins in auctions like Heritage as it does with all the other TPG companies.

CAC doesn't want to compete in an open market with other TPG. They want to skim the profits in the lucrative FUD trade which is a natural by product of all the grading services.

~~now back to our regularly scheduled programming of light chit chat and irreverent nonsense like the fun in the mentoring thread.

Ruben

 

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Hey gang, the sentance about Lincolns and Indians has been edited out of the Legend report entirely !!!!!!

I only wish I had saved a screen shot of the original.

Is this akin to getting an auction pulled? No, but it still fells good.

New link:

http://www.legendcoin.com/cgi-bin/inventory/cms2.pl?page=market_report

I see a WHOLE lot of back covering here in the new one:

congrats gang

 

I expected it dropped. I guess this is topic for another thread. I'm thinking along the lines how much did it drop, what were the durations? I know no one can see the future, but I'm trying to understand the historical trends, not that they mean much. Lately nothing has followed historical trends.

 

Rick and Andy, perhaps Laura owes you a hotdog at LB??

 

That should be a lesson to archive anything you think as important enough to refer to in the future...

just save the page next time. All my stuff is archived here http://www.mrbrklyn.com/resources/ ready for easy research and light cocktail hour pater.

Ruben

 

They didn't delete the reference "(sorry gossipers and chat room weenies, this is NOT a CAC ad). So if I have posted to this thread does it make me a "chat room weenie"?:hammer:
Wow I haven't been called a weenie in at least a week.

 

How is it fraud for a company to offer an opinion and be paid for it.
That's what millions of companies do every day and they are not called frauds. Is everyone here a fraud for offering their opinion? The answer is, no. The thought process of thinking everyone is a fraud is twisted to the max.
Good night folks. I'll be back after a break from being a fraud for offering my opinion.

 

The fraud is charging for a hedge on someone else's opinion. They're not profiting from any opinion. They are hedging someone else's opinion. That skews markets.

I will happily explain this again as many times as necessary.

Ruben

:bigeyes:

 

Even IF you are correct, I fail to see how that qualifies as fraud.

 

I admit that it is not easy for people to immediately to understand but there are certain business practices which are categorically fraud and CAC is using one of the big ones.

Ruben

 

Ruben

Thanks for stealing my thoughts and sharing them here about these ridiculous grading ventures.:thumb:

 

Without fanning the flames...

Friend of mine has a coin in a holder, it's not for sale, but it proves a point. It's a Morgan that was Bodybagged by PCGS for being basically overdipped.

10 Months later said coin is in a PCGS holder, with monster rainbow toning and has a green sticker on it.

 

nonsense i am int hat league and you are my trusted dealer and friend

 

That is the best example yet of why you should save your money and not buy the sticker. :thumb:

 

Was this added to the article today? (2nd italic note):

http://www.legendcoin.com/cgi-bin/inventory/cms2.pl?page=market_report

"As many of you know, Legend's principals are shareholders of CAC. While CAC is not for everyone (sorry gossipers and chat room weenies, this is NOT a CAC ad), if you do go it alone and if you do spend significant money on coins, you should seriously consider ONLY buying CAC coins. A lot of people are jealous and some dealers hate it because they can't get over graded coins stickered. Pretty much ALL of the largest retailers are CAC members. The gossip girls in the chat rooms will take those statements and play with them but good. For the record, we are NOT saying a NON CAC coin is no good. Do know, what was mentioned here was to point out-the coin docs are still cooking and dealing-you do not want to buy a bad coin in this market-do you? Of course those dealers who have the tainted coins don't want to be involved w/CAC (yes, yes, not every dealer has tainted coins). As we mentioned before-CAC is not meant for everyone, but not everyone has the time to be full grown experts and need to count on a service like CAC. CAC IS important in the war against coin docs-like it or not.

We've noticed some public chatting about this last paragraph. If you think we are discussing a dealer you think you know, ask the dealer who they partner most of their coins with. If you know who the coin docs are, then you'll see the proof-unless they lie. Or, ask if their partners are crackout dealers-you want to buy coins that are ALWAYS upgraded? And yes, MOST crackout dealers DO mess with coins. These guys hate CAC and everything it stands for. Back to the discussion about the coin market... "

 

CAC is only good for people who cant grade period. and people who cant grade should not be spending thousands on coins

 

I know it was there yesterday when I read it.

 

That is not the same thing. First, its a question if healthcare is a true market, but that is a discussion for another day and for the Politics and Religion forum. Secondly, each doctor is making an independent evaluation based on the medical facts and each independent evaluation is seperate from the other.

Its not charging for the opinion that is fraud. Once you move off that point you'll start to understand how CAC is a classic fraud. Doctors make their income practicing Medicine. Lawyers make their money practicing Law. Consumer reports makes their money as a non-profit evaluating and testing products.

Joe Guinness on the street corner is making his money giving a thumbs up and a thumbs down on a Consumers Reports articiles reliability ?? and is selling the products that Consumers Reports is reporting on? That is fraud.

And that is what CAC is doing. CAC does not have a profit center based on their grading. If they did they would be slabbing or doing something of the same thing. They are making their money giving a thumbs up and a thumbs down on the grades in the slabs. That is a classic fraud and in the stock market that would be a violation. They refuse to compete in the grading services market. I'll repeat this: They refuse to compete in the grading services market. They're profits are driven not by grading but the direct impact that their stickers have on the market behaviors of coins with stickers. That is why they are coming out with fraudulent statements such as, "Coins without the CAC sticker aren't legitimate and dealers that don't participate in the CAC program aren't legitimate." That was pretty much what was written this week and it is 100% expected behavior with the business model they have created.

No legitimate TPGing company would make this kind of statement and if they did, they'd be rightfully raked for it. PCGS would never say that dealers who refuse to slab their coins with PCGS are suspect. Their business model isn't driven by that. Their business model is driven by grading and slabbing coins. The value of that service is whatever it is to the coin owner. It is not market targeted, and it isn't a hedge on someone else's grading. They grade the coin. CAC grades the GRADER.

With all due respect, no - your not doing anything LIKE CAC. first, your not making any money on this. So your completely clear from the market forces that inevitably drive CAC towards misconduct. Secondly, your not putting your little sticker on it in, or putting stickers en mass on coins thereby intentionally affecting market forces. Your GRADING coins for INDIVIDUALS, slabbed or not slabbed. If you decide to turn this into a sideline I strongly suggest you slab the coins your going grade or you will be affected by the same greed that builds market forces to inevitably misrepresent the value of the CAC stickers and by the need to create differentiations real or imagined that propels your market.

The minute you take money for this you've essentially set up a house of cards, and yes, you will be either forced into a fraudulent methodology or you'll go broke.


Now where this gets interesting is this. Say your dealing coins. And you have these slabbed coins and your evaluating them either for a purchase or a sale. And your talking to your client. Your now a direct participant in the transaction and you might also be propelled to make fraudulent statements or transactions. But chances are you won't last long in the market like that as your reputation goes down the tubes. THAT is a normal market transaction. But that is entirely not what CAC is doing. The only market force that they will respond to in a free market is the amount of FUD they can create.

If I'm wrong so is every business school in the nation. I still love you though. When you separate a hedge evaluation from the buyer and the seller your building a house of cards.

Ruben

 

So if I pay a dealer friend to view auction lots and offer his opinion, he is a fraud? No. I'm thinking the coin market is really different than most others.