Washington Contact Marks?

Since you indicate that these gouges show a consistent position relative to the incuse design elements on the edge, that would support your idea that they're being generated by the lettering device. Post-production damage should be random in its location.

 

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Both of the gouges on the two coins I have in my possession are located between the E and the T in We Trust.

 

Mine are in that same general location....

 

Give me a few minutes and I can make 100 of these "errors", and then we can mix them all together in a bag and see if anyone can tell which is which.

 

You can do the same thing with many different types of mint errors....we already got your point, you don't have to be rude about it....

 

I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to boil the situation down to the basic common sense approach that should have prevailed before the thread even started. If mint damage can be faked and be identical to what comes out of a Mint roll, then it really has no value.

And, I would disagree with the comment about being able to do "the same thing with many different types of mint errors." I am not aware of any recognized mint error that can be successfully faked without detection by an expert (I could be wrong, of course). And, that is the point. A real mint error can only happen at the Mint, not outside.

 

Well, I obviously know that a mint error must happen at the mint, and I think that these happened in the edge lettering machine, so, by your definition of a mint error and my belief that these were damaged in the edge lettering process then they are indeed errors =P

 

I realize that this is an older thread, but I found this.. which may be of interest.

http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=5840

I have one of these coins, too. Exactly as previously described.

 

Hmmmm....even Ken Potter thinks this is a mint error (damaged rims).

 

But None of those causes of damage are from something that is supposed to be creating the coin. The dollar coins are a little different, they aren't finished being created after the striking is done. Or would you say that the coins missing their edge lettering, or with double lettering etc, are NOT mint errors because that happened or rather failed to happen after the coin was struck? I don't think so. (And what about a double struck coin, that second strike happened after the coin was struck. Is it post strike damage and not a mint error too?) I think as long as it is being caused by the equipment that is supposed to be creating the coin we may have to consider it to be a mint error.

 

Amen to that one!

That's what I'm screamin! I do Agree withya!!:desk: Whatever happen's before it goes out the door!!
They're made at the "Mint" so I'd think whatever happens in the "mint" irregardless is a "mint error"!
Like a surgeon in OR, taking a person's leg off and takes the wrong one instead,He still damaged the guy! and he's still going to go home too..damaged!

 

me thinks that Ken is sniffing the mint's cleaning fluid a bit too much.

 

The coin showing the obverse at the beginning of the thread show types of post-mint damage. I only read the first page before I posted so this may have been hashed out later But...

Post Mint damage as mentioned happens after the coin is made. It doesn't matter if the coin is in a bag from the Mint. the coins are moved around in huge bins and each coin is being banged around and bag marked as the coins are being moved around. That doesn't even take into consideration the damage that happens as coins are being dumped onto each other during the minting process or the bagging process.


Once the coins are made, they are in huge bags on palletes that are then shipped to private companies that count and wrap the coins. In other words , those neat little wrappers that are printed by Strings are used outside the Mint at a private company.

The counting machines and the wrapping machines are unmerciful and cause all kinds of damage.

In simple terms, a mini-bag of coins from the Mint can have coins loaded with any type of post-mint damage. Any coin in a machine wrapped roll which was not wrapped by the Mint (they haven't been since about 1999) can have post mint damage.

Mint bags and machine wrappers are no guarantee that anything on the coin is a "Mint Error"...it is more likely damage.

You need to become more familiar with the process at the Mint before you can call something an error or Post Mint damage.

The coins that were at the top of the thread are clunkers with damage that happened after the coins were minted.

The second post shows marks that are remnants of die polishing. They are not that unusual on modern coins.

Thanks,
Bill

 

What looks like a question about edge lettering missing happens in a few ways.

The Washington dollars were a mishap with a bin of struck coins not being run through the Schuler , edge lettering machines. Since then, the system has been modified using colored hoppers to distinguish coins that have been edge lettered from those that have not.

Coins can still miss getting lettered edges by missing the edge lettering machine completely (although rare now) or by passing through the edge lettering machine while the pressure on the machine is set too lightly. Loads of Jefferson dollars were edge lettered very lightly this way. Some are so light as to be almost like a coin with no edge lettering at all.

Thanks,
Bill

 

One final word of explanation...a Mint error happens as a result of the striking process. period.

It has nothing to do with whether or not a struck coin is still within the confines of the walls at the Mint.

What is being suggested is that if a coin is struck perfectly and some Mint employee whacks it with a hammer before it leaves the Mint that the coin is therefore a Mint error. In simple terms...That "Ain't" the way it works.

An error happens during the process of striking of a coin.

Thanks,
Bill

 

And a final finally for now

The dollar coins are not considered finished until the edge lettering is added. So they are little different in that the coin is struck.....post mint damage and bag marks can and do happen before the edge lettering is applied. That kind of damage is not an error as it is not a part of the mechanical process of minting the coin.

So Coin is minted....

post mint damage can occur

edge lettering is applied even to some coins that have been damaged and marked up

coins are in big bins again and even more post mint damage can occur.

It is only while the striking is taking place or the actual edge lettering is taking place (or not) that a Mint error is created.

Anything else is damage,

Thanks,
Bill