World silver crown-size type coin collectors?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Ag76, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    I don't know about the ping test but these coins are often quite beaten up.

    Taler, Daalder, écu , Daler and Tallero are in principle the same thing in German, Dutch/Flemish, French, Swedish and Italian respectively (and, of course, later dollar in English). In the Spanish Netherlands, your coin would be called an écu Philippe in French-speaking areas and a Filipsdaalder in Flemish-speaking areas (including Antwerp, where your coin was struck).

    As you know, the weight of Talers changed over time. They also varied by region. In the Holy Roman Empire the Reichsmünzordnung (Imperial Coinage Order) of 1566 set the weight of the Taler at 29.23 g (@ .889 silver = 25.98 g silver). However, the Spanish Netherlands coinage was based on the different Spanish system, as ChrisB says.

    Under an ordinance of July 21 1557, Philip II replaced the 22.86 g silver Carolusgulden of his father, Charles V, by the heavy 34.28 g Filipsdaalder. like your coin. Charles V spent most of the flood of gold and silver from the New World on fighting the rise of Protestantism and other military adventures and under Philip II fighting the rebellion in the Netherlands and other wars left Spain bankrupt by the time he died. When Philip's daughter Isabella and her husband Albert of Austria took over the government of the Spanish Netherlands in 1598, they had to devalue and introduce a new coinage. Under a 1599 ordinance the heavy Filipsdaalder was abandoned and a new silver coinage struck based on a 13.71 g silver gulden of 20 Stuiver (so 2 1/2 gulden were equivalent to the old heavy Filipsdaalder worth 50 Stuiver).
     
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  3. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    Germany BRUNSWICK-WOLFENBUTTEL August II Taler 1656 28.78 g

    Br-Wolfenbuttel August II Taler 1656 LD obv 287.jpg Br-Wolfenbuttel August II Taler 1656 LD rev 296.jpg
     
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  4. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    Obviously the ping test is not necessarily relevant, the style is right in my opinion and i also managed to track the coin to an action in Prague. Very interesting info so i thank both of you. I have to say that my other piece , the 1558 Brabant one, does have a very clear silver sound!
     
  5. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

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  6. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

  7. talerman

    talerman Well-Known Member

    I won't click LIKE because I don't like fakes but thank you for posting. I am so scared of E-Bay fakes I have never bought anything there, although I realise I have missed many good coins and bargains. The underlying Mansfeld coin may well be genuine, in which case it may be a reasonable buy if you can get it for GBP 1 or so.
     
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  8. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    I suppose the counterstamp is the issue with Jefimoks and we all know the price of such coins, so it's not a surprise, probably similar to the George III counterstamp issue on 8 reales. Recently saw a well beaten, on purpose i'd say, Worms taler sold for around 350£ and yesterday found this Munster piece and contacted the seller. The coin was 30.68 grams and not around 28.7 as most are, plus it seems a bit off. He said he bought it as a genuine piece from a reputable UK dealer and i remember that i also bought a fake 1/2 1701 KB taler when i started to collect crowns, the sellers are ma shops dealers now and sold me the coin as genuine too.

    fg.jpg ghgh.jpg
     
  9. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

    Fast forward to the 20th century and some quintessentially Soviet artwork. I've always thought this Czech piece was one the best examples. Of course, many Russian examples of Soviet artwork exist on coins too, but it's the satellite countries that have always fascinated me. Czech coins, Hungarian, Polish and especially Romanian (many of which are very inexpensive). I can't imagine the local denizens being naive enough to buy-in to the communist utopia nonsense on these designs. The similarities in much of the artwork, however, make for a real interesting niche to collect.

    Population 1/0 Finer at NGC

    Dsc_0860+.jpg

    Dsc_0861+.jpg
     
  10. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . .

    Not sure I posted this in THIS thread, but have elsewhere. It is my FAVORITE world silver crown-sized coin . . . . . .

    Dude depicted was an incredible character . . . . .



    IMG_0558.JPG

    IMG_0559.JPG


     
  11. princeofwaldo

    princeofwaldo Grateful To Be eX-I/T!

  12. Trish

    Trish Well-Known Member

    1702 Papal States Testone Clement XI.jpg My newly acquired favorite
    1702 Papal States Testone, Clement XI, KM #662
    Obverse-CLEMENS • XI • PONT • M • A • II • Clement XI, Pontifex Maximus, Anno Two. • Papal Tiara above the crossed keys to heaven above the family arms of Pope Clement.
    Reverse IMPERAT • AVT • SERVIT • Commands or serves. • 1702 • Money counting table with bags of coins.
    33mm, 9.05 grams, .917 silver
     
  13. wcg

    wcg Well-Known Member

    @Trish - That is a very attractive testone! I have always liked that design of coins on the table.
     
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  14. wcg

    wcg Well-Known Member

    A huge new addition arrived today; I've been admiring these multiple talers in books for many years. This particular issue was struck to commemorate the 88th birthday of August II (The Younger) a mere 4 months before his death in Sept 1666.

    1666-HS Brunswick Wolfenbuttel 4 Taler (Löser)
    DAV-LS84, Welter-781A, 87mm, 116.30gm
    1666-4T-obv1-both.jpg 4T next to 45mm piastra from Italian Papal States for perspective
    1666-4T-comparison-1PIA-cropped.jpg

    Excerpt from an ANA blog article this past June (https://www.money.org/ana-blog/thalers):
    ......
    Soon after the discovery of the rich new silver veins in the ducal mines of the Harz Mountains, Julius (1528-1589, Duke and Prince 1568-1589) devised a plan to create a permanent reserve fund for the defense of his duchy. He ordered each of his subjects who owned property to purchase one of his new multiple thalers. The denomination purchased depended on the wealth of the subject. Coins were struck in a range of denominations from 1 ¼ to 16 thalers. Owners of these pieces were required to turn them in when requested by the Duke in exchange for debased currency, thus creating an instant source of good silver coinage whenever needed. Julius’ successors in the Duchy of Brunswick continued to produce these coins.

    The fact that these pieces were so large physically and in value meant it was likely that the owners would actually keep them on hand. It would have been difficult to use them in any normal purchasing context, since it would have been equivalent to trying to make change for a $500 bill at 7-11 even for the lower denomination pieces. There may have been an element of pride in owning them, since they were a physical sign of the owners’ wealth and artistically beautiful. Collectors were willing to pay up to five times the face value for these coins in the early eighteenth century, not long after they had outlived their original purpose.
     
  15. Mkman123

    Mkman123 Well-Known Member

    @wcg Holy cow thats one monstrous sized coin!!!
     
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  16. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    Awesome addition. Having a 4 Taler or larger is still on my wish list.
     
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  17. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . .

    Gives new meaning to the term, "Daddy Fat Sacks" if you've got a few of those in your pockets . . . .
     
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  18. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully 35mm diameter counts as "crown size"?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. PaddyB

    PaddyB Eccentric enthusiast

  20. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

    @wcg Congratulations, i'm really happy that you've added this sensational piece to your already special collection!
     
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  21. PaulTudor

    PaulTudor Well-Known Member

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