Roman Republican Denarius of L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus - My First Scooped-Out Al Marco (maybe)

Until a couple years ago, I had no idea what an al marco coin was. But thanks to several examples and explanations and theories in Coin Talk postings, I have been able to learn a few things. This week I got what I think might be my first example of such a coin, and wanted to share it. It was issued by L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus in 62 B.C. and shows Perseus of Macedon and his sons as captives with a trophy and the moneyer's ancestor L. Aemilius Paullus.

The bust of Concordia on the obverse shows what looks to be a long, shallow "scoop" made in order to reduce its weight. Or is it just random circulation damage? I've never actually seen one of these in person.

The al marco weight adjustment topic has come up several times over the past couple of years on CT, but the only post with "al marco" in the title I could find is this one started by David Atherton from January '18:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/domitian-al-marco.309866/

Here is a fine explanation of what al marco is, by Clive Stannard (which I found via Andrew McCabe's site https://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/Mints.html )

Weight adjustment al marco in Antiquity, and the Athenian decadrachm
by Clive Stannard

"Minting technology responds to one or both of two objectives regarding weight: to make coins that are individually of a certain weight, within a narrow range (the ‘tolerances’); and to obtain a fixed number of coins from a fixed weight of metal. Weight adjustment of individual coins is al pezzo; adjustment by relating a fixed count of coins to a fixed weight of metal, without overmuch care about the weight of individual coins, is al marco.

In 1993 I showed that many Roman Republican denarii issues between 123 and 49/48 BC were adjusted al marco; this was possible because of the visible traces of the technique used to adjust the flans before striking, by gouging slivers of metal off the surface with a scorper. This produces characteristic undercut lunate ‘judder’ marks, belly forward across the cut. The metal of the judders folds over, and the judder is usually visible, even when the cut itself has been quite obliterated (Pl. I, 1)."

https://www.academia.edu/1443037/Weight_adjustment_al_marco_in_Antiquity_and_the_Athenian_decadrachm

I think mine shows the appropriate "judders" but if I am mistaken, corrections always welcome. Share your al marco'd coins, further information, etc.




Roman Republic Denarius
L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus
(62 B.C.)
Concordia veiled & diademed r., PAVLLVS LEPIDVS CONCORDIA / TER PAVLVS above and under L Aemilius Paullus standing r., trophy, Perseus and two sons captive on the left.
Aemilia 10; Crawford 415/1.
(3.83 grams / 19 mm)

 

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Nice find, @Marsyas Mike ! They took a lotta metal off yours. Marred and scarred. I think the die-cutter had to be ticked-off with his artwork violated.

Like you, cuz of all the yammering about stannard scoops, and al marco, etc., I had to capture one.

Mine had Hercules having the muscle ripped from his leg, causing Roma on the obverse to look like she could see her breath on a cold winter day...

In my manufacturing experience, the interruption marks made by the scoop would be called “chatter” marks, as the tool would hesitate and slightly jump as it cut across the metal. This is because the user could not keep up consistent and proper pressure while drawing the tool.


Roman Repubic
C POBLICIUS Q f
80 BCE
AR Denarius serratus 3.94g
Rome mint
Obv: Roma Helmeted and Draped Bust; Feathers in Hlmet (always reminded me of the Samnium feather dressing)
Rev: Stannard Scoop on reverse - Flan al Marco weight control gouge
Hercules strangling the Nemean lion club quiver
Craw 380-1 Syd 768

 

At one point, I started a specialty sub-collection of these (it takes all kinds of collector to make a hobby). These are some of my favorites:
Like yours, my Paullus has a very shallow scoop showing ten stutters.


A weak strike and deep scoop resulted in a flat spot on the obverse worse than most.


While it only stutters twice, this shows especially sharp scoop details.


This is what happens when a coin has a scoop on the obverse that got caved in by a banker's punch on the reverse. I bought this really hoping it was a rare example with a scoop on both sides. It is not.

The scooping was done to assure that a certain number of coins weighed a certain amount. No great effort was made to adjust each coin to an average weight but that the batch total was right. No effort was made to scoop heavier coins rather than lighter ones. When a coin was scooped, it was thrown back into the bunch which was weighed and repeated until the total was exactly correct. That means it is possible that a coin could be grabbed to be scooped a second time and the operator might not notice. I imagine this was done very rapidly so this detail might be missed on rare occasion. That's why I want one with two scoops.

 

Nice example!

The scoops are not particularly obtrusive on the reverse of this one, but they're there.


Much more obvious on this one.

 

Then there is the question on whether these coins are damaged or more interesting. I bought the Paullus I showed because of the scoop style but I did not pay extra for it since the coin was reduced in interest to most collectors. How much of a discount you should expect depends of many factors certainly including just how ugly the mark is. Today we see some dealers asking a premium for faults as defined a short time back. There was a time that people avoided barbarous, fourree and scooped coins like they did coins hit by a shovel when being dug. I preferred those days since it made it easier to buy coins with a story. I bought the coin below for the reverse and really wish the obverse were all there.

 

Really terrific al marco examples and information shared here - it is nice to see them all in one thread. It is also interesting to note that the tools used and the techniques were not identical. You had deep & narrow gougers and broad & shallow gougers working at the mint, apparently.

Doug makes a good point about "damage" and "interest." For many years I was an enthusiastic chopmark collector (on world crowns, and sometimes, minors). Back in the 1980s, there were collectors of chops, but generally prices were still reduced for chopped coins. Which made this an affordable and interesting area to collect.

Nowadays this isn't the case - chopped coins sometimes sell for more than an un-chopped host, if chops were unusual for this particular type. But even commonly chopped coins sell pretty close to the same as un-chopped specimens, at least in the VF-G range. I don't actively collect chopped coins anymore, but I still venture onto the World Forum from time to time:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/17...r-w-100-chop-marks.355449/page-2#post-4163334

As for al marco RR denarii, they are considerably scarcer than, say, chopped 8 reales or trade dollars - Stannard (in the article linked above) suggests 5.3% based on hoard analysis. But I doubt anybody would pay a premium for them.

Of course Roman Republican (and Greek, Persian, Indian etc.) banker's marks are more analogous to chopmarks than al marco scoops are.

Then there's adjustment marks, of the sort found on French ecus, etc., a pre-strike way to adjust a flan to proper weight...so many ways to mutilate a coin! As a collector, I find mutilation interesting - chops, countermarks, holes, jewelry mounts...and al marco!

 

We had this discussion a few years ago regarding the file marks on Nemausus dupondii of Augustus and Agrippa. The file marks were pre striking flan adjustments and not post mint damage but coins with them sell for less than coins without them.

 

Publius Furius Crassipes (84 B.C.)
AR Denarius
O: AED CVR, turretted head of Cybele right. Long oval gouge and tool mark across Cybele's head (al marco weight adjustments).
R: Curule chair inscribed P FOVRIUS, CRASSIPES in exergue.
Rome Mint
3.9g
20.5mm
RCV 275

Publius Furius strikes here not as moneyer, but as a special issue in his role as Curule Aedile, hence the curule chair bearing his name.

 

I'm very excited to see your example of al marco adjustment on your denarius of L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus, Marsyas Mike, because I believe I have a very similarly adjusted example of the same issue too. The positioning and the type of gouge are very close, though I think mine has proceeded from the centre outwards and yours from the outside in? Perhaps someone with more experience of metalwork could confirm that. I have to say - I was very excited to see your coin! Please excuse the eccentric photo, I was trying to show the gouge as well as I can.

I must say I find it surprising to see the face of the goddess mutilated in this way: I would have expected more of a taboo against this.

 

Nice one, clem.fandango - it is good to see another one of this type with the al marco adjustments. Sorry I cannot shed any light on how this work was done - they do all seem to have a similar approach, from the ones I've seen, with the shallow scoops done four or five or so times. Beyond that, the only metalwork I am capable of is opening a beer can!

Interesting to note Doug's example of the type (above) has the gouges on the reverse, thus sparing the goddess.

Also - welcome to Coin Talk!

 

Excellent topic. Here are a couple...

Anonymous. Circa 86 BC. AR Denarius (19mm, 3.90g). Obv: Laureate head of Apollo right; thunderbolt below. Rev: Jupiter in quadriga right. Ref: Crawford 350a/2; Sydenham 723; RSC 226.


Mn. Fonteius C.f. 85 BC. AR Denarius (18mm, 3.77g). Rome mint. Obv: Laureate head of Vejovis (or Apollo) right; thunderbolt below. Rev: Infant winged Genius (or Cupid) seated on goat, which is standing right; pilei of the Dioscuri above; thyrsus with fillet in exergue; all within laurel wreath. Ref: Crawford 353/1c; Sydenham 724a; Fonteia 10; RBW 1351.

 

Nice ones! Here is one of mine

82-83 BC* Q ANTONIUS BALBUS

Laureate head of Jupiter right; S•C behind

Victory in quadriga right; I below horses, Q ANTO BALB/PR in two lines in exergue.

Rome, 83 BC

3.99g

Crawford 364/1d; Sydenham 742b; Antonia 1. Sear 279

Lustrous Choice VF. Al Marco (weight reduction) on obverse in field.

ex-ANE

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142620

 

Very cool coin and fun thread! Some really great coins that probably got picked up for a much more affordable price thanks to these scoops!
Some ancient scooped Jupiter's face clean off with two scoops! (making this rare type very affordable for me)


Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio
Denarius, 19mm 3.74g. (h). Africa, 47-46 BC. Obv: Laureate head of Jupiter right; Q METEL before, PIVS behind. Rx: Elephant walking right, SCIPIO above, IMP in exergue. Crawford 459/1. Sydenham 1046. RSC Caecilia 47. Sear, Imperators 45

Ex Savoca

 

Excellent coin Ryro, jealous. I'm genuinely surprised by the mutilation of the faces of deities, given how squeamish Romans were about the destruction of images / how significant their destruction was when officially mandated.

 

They didn't actually mutilate the faces of the deities, at least not knowingly. Stannard's original paper on this subject argues fairly convincingly that this was done before striking, rather than after. The mint workers evidently didn't put too much thought into which way the gouged side faced during striking, however

 

Ahhh I see. Thanks, that's fascinating. That's a fine line they didn't cross, then, so to speak. And functionally to a Roman viewer, the face is still mutilated.

 

I only have two relevant coins to share. Both L. Papius.

This one is UGLY. I bought it for the scoop......

Obv:– Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin. Behind head, cooking pot with hook.
Rev:– Gryphon running right; in ex., L. PAPI.; in field, triple flesh-hook
Minted in Rome from B.C. 79.
Reference:– RSC Papia 1. RRC 384/1. RCTV 311.
Symbol variety – RRC 13. Babelon 13. BMCRR 35. CNR: 1/049.

A weight adjustment scoop on the reverse



The second is less ugly and bought for a combination of the nice symbol pair and the scoop

Obv:– Head of Juno Sospita right, wearing goat skin tied under chin. Behind head, base of column.
Rev:– Gryphon running right; in ex., L. PAPI.; in field, corinthian capital
Minted in Rome from . B.C. 79.
Reference(s) – RSC Papia 1. RRC 384/1. RCTV 311.
Symbol variety – RRC 21. Babelon 81. BMCRR 21. CNR 1/034

3.41 gms

 

Examine all the photos in this thread and see how most show detail loss on the side not scooped as well. The thinned metal was not enough to fill the die properly. Some show it more than others.