Featured The Modesty of Emperors

Thanks for posting that, Al - always a good resource. I have the same edition as you.

James

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

James, I really treasure that book, all 929 pages of it ! Considering when that book was compiled, 1889, without the use of the internet, it was a staggering accomplishment & is still valuable today. The "old timers" need to be taken seriously.

 

Thank you, I wasn’t aware that BMCRE was online that way. There used to be a link to an online edition via a site in India, but I understand there was some doubt as to its legitimitacy.

 

+1

I am afraid my copy has become quite “dog-eared”, Al.

 

Domitian, Augustus, AD 81-96. AR Denarius (19mm, 3.4g). Rome mint. Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG – GERM P M TR P IIII; Laureate head right, wearing aegis. Rev: IMP VIIII COS XI - CENS POT P P; Minerva standing left with spear. Ref: C 176; BMC 80; RIC 339.

 

That's odd, as this Justin I follis appears to also have PP, despite being 150 years after Theodosius I..


Justin I AE Follis
Obv: DNIVSTI NVSPPAVG
Rev: Large M, Star Left, Cross Right
Mint: Constantinople
Reference: SB 63

 

As Severus Alexander stated in his post "P.P." no longer had the same meaning on late Roman & Byzantine coins .

 

Thanks for the further info, Al! A classic book, for sure - I did a bit more digging and this does sound like a very plausible cutoff. (I definitely felt the need to dig more, though, as Stevenson is apparently not 100% accurate:

This seems rather unlikely as he wasn't even governor of Pannonia Superior yet, never mind emperor!)

Here's some corroboration from Brill's New Pauly, which is a good scholarly source. I can't access the whole entry though.

Then I had some fun with EAGLE, the Electronic Archive of Greek and Latin Epigraphy (search here or here). The latest record I found for "Pater Patriae" fully written out rather than inferred from "PP" is for Valentinian I in Sardinia:

M(ilia) p(assuum) [---].
D(omino) n(ostro) Valentiniano Aug(usto),
trib(uniciae) potestatis, pater
patriae, viam quae a
5 [Karalibus ducit Olb(iam)]
vetustate corruptam
restituit,
curante Fl(avio) Maximino
[pro]curatore suo.
​

Obviously that's getting pretty close to Theo. I wonder if Theo was the last to be Pater Patriae since he was the last to head a unified empire. It doesn't seem to make sense for the Patria to have two Paters...

 

S.A., That's a good point . Since Theodosius I was the last single emperor to rule the empire how could two emperor rule justify the use of P.P. . I guess we should cut Stevenson some slack, I'm sure lots of his info was anecdotal . When you look at the size of his book it seems incomprehensible anyone person could have researched all that info in one lifetime .

 

Evidently there was no modesty for Domitian. He accepted PP on the day the Senate granted his powers.

Domitian AR denarius, Rome Mint. 86 AD.
Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM PM TRP VIII, laureate head right.
Rev: IMP XIX COS XIIII CENS PPP, Minerva walking right, wielding a spear and holding shield on left arm.

 

Yes that is how I assess it Al. But I will say that I have found much useful information in this dictionary that was not available anywhere else.

 

Worth noting that the challenge of two "Pater"s came up with Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus - and didn't seem to create any issue. See the OP reference:

"Receipt of PP in AD 166 accords with the evidence of the Historia Augusta that Marcus was offered the PP nomen while Verus was absent at the Parthian War but deferred taking it until his brother's return (SHA Marc. 9.1-3). After Verus had returned victorious from Syria in 166, PP was decreed to both because Marcus, in the absence of Verus, had conducted himself 'most moderately' (moderatissime) towards senators and ordinary men."
- Tom Stevenson (2008) Numismatic Chronicle​

I find utility in older resources and some even a bit older than Stevenson e.g. Pliny, Plutarch, Appian, Dio Cassius, Cicero, Caesar, Livy, Paterculus, Sallust.....I don't want to go out too far on a limb, but there may have been one or two Greeks worth reading too.

 

There is an argument that he may have waited a few months and accepted at the same time as he became Pontifex Maximus with numismatic evidence that the first TRP COS VII silver and gold issues are without "P.P.". The "Group 1" denarii are listed as 13-September to 31-December AD 81 in RIC II (p.266).