CAC article- Nov.08 Coinage

Nothing makes me happier than you be shown wrong by experts.

Ruben

 

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I am not making predictions other than it will be entertaining.

 

Considering that I posted about 12 primary and secondary sources on Validation of Process and nobody read it, and spent weeks of work that week handling Sarbanes-Oxley restrictions it would be a breadth of fresh air.
Everyone keeps pointing to the same thngs... coins are different and therefor CAC is not a scam...

give it a break already. I don't think what CAC does would be legal under Sarbanes-Oxley and SEC regulations.

Ruben

 

What's so special about robots , and developing drugs , they take what they learned at school , and figure a need , figure out how to fill that need , it's all Xs and Os with a little proble solving thrown in , and lots of luck . The only place where it gets a little mystical is on the cutting edges of science , where only the extremely gifted can really get it .
rzage

 

There you go again spouting phrases and people in non laymans terms , a good teacher can make a child understand something , Ruben I love talking with you about coins encil:, but not when your spouting advanced economics .
rzage

 

I largely agree with you and that actually is part of the point I'm making. But really, manufacturing is always cutting edge. Making toasters is easy. Making drugs...that is not just a little problem solving. You want Aspirin, not vinegar. Just purification of drugs is a high end sub specialty.


But its not just drugs. Semi-conductors, automobile manufacturing, ceramics, oil refinery and chemical production, glass construction, advanced fabric production, aircraft manufacturing, and on and on...

But they can all fit in standard economic theory.

Actually, the far end of research is actually less imaginative. Its is patient , repetitive, routine bench work.

Ruben

 

Your right there my brotherin law is a Doc. in pharmacology presently working on Lymes disease , he said it is the most repetitive dull work with an occasional victory ,finding .
rzage

 

Is he working for Lilly or NIH?

Ruben

 

Tell you the truth he's in immunology , he's at Northwestern doing clinical reaserch for MS , i Just called my sister to make sure , imunology , pharmacology all greek to me .
rzage:thumb:

 

The drugs that made breakthoughs for MS have been huge money makers including Glatiramer , as I recall, and are cutting edge immunregulators. Production is delecate.
Ruben

 

See you're speaking Greek to me again , I tried reading one of them periodicals he gets it might as well been written in French .
rzage:thumb:

 

Ruben,

I will say it a third time! If you are so confident in your vast knowledge of economics to say with such absolute certainty that CAC is a scam, why don't you report them to the FBI and shut the whole thing down!! Get it shut down so we don't have to worry about it or talk about it anymore!! Save us! Save all the morons. I say contact the authorities. Why won't you do this?? You're 'proving' the scam here every day so it should be easy to get it shut down.

You're the only one beating your chest in this debate. You're proclaiming you have all this vast knowledge that nobody else here has and you keep talking about B.S. that just strays off topic.

I'm trying to glean something from what you've posted here but continue to be left empty handed. Every time I shoot down your argument, you say what I have to say doesn't apply.

So let's cut the crap. No more references to authors or economists that nobody's heard of but you.
You're positive CAC is a scam. You don't like the grading system. You don't like the TPGs. So what's your answer? Lets get rid of it all.

What should we do now? The hobby's better off with all raw coins?? That must be your point of view. Scrap the grading system? Maybe just not have one anymore? Maybe there is no answer? What DO you like?

Ok, a lot of questions here. Let's see how many get answered.

 

Thanks Ruben but I'm sure there is little you could help me with as far as coins go.
If I need help with being rude, you will be the first person I think of.

 

Vess

Its rudimentary economics, nothing advanced. If I had an advanced economics degree or background I'd be making more money.

Not all scams are illegal. Look at the MTA for an example..

Ruben

 

Thanks for the compliment. You have a great icon.

Ruben

 

So tell us how standard economic and business tools CAN be used to assess the coin business. What's your theory? What should they all be doing right now to make grading a science?

 

Its a fair question, but a different question from the validity of CAC as a ethical business standard. How well ANYONE grades coins is irrelevant to whether CAC is a scam or not. CAC is a scam because its profitability is completely dependent and a function of the degree of FUD it generates in the market. If it generates no fear of TPG's, it will make ZERO profit. If it generates too much fear uncertainty and doubt, it can destoy the entire market, for themselves and the TPGs it depends on. There is a specific amount of FUD they are dependent on to maximize their profits. ... and that is the scam...


I can't describe either market theory or how to validate and update the grading process do in one post. And what I would say about speficis of upgrading the process of grading would be theoretical and not necessarily the outcome of business experts in creating a grading system based on their collected data of the market and the best practices. Regardless, we need to really first look at basic market theory and I'm willing to put out that basic information but it will take a day to at least write up. And I did post previously what it would likely take to create a validated grading service that can be mass produced with skilled labor. Do a search on validation and mrbrklyn.

Quickly, In a pure market, a perfect market, you might have a classroom of equally educated people buying at auction 100 known raw coin. Under these conditions, coins are brought and sold in that market based soley on the financial wherewithal of the bidders and their personnel desire for the individual coin. Coin prices are determined by strict supply and demand and a function of the money supply. All market and business theory derives from this ideal condition and the exceptions from the ideal need to be rationally explained and mathematically described.

Obviously, with coins, there is a big problem with market information. TPGs provide a service to grade coins. They sell that. People want that. It also happens to affect market behavior. But if TPGs are going their jobs, that shouldn't affect the grading process, deficiencies and all. (this sets aside for the moment Dougs discussion on recent market grading changes). What CAC is selling is a grade of the graders that is specifically designed to affect market outcomes. They can talk about A B and C grades all they want but it is economic BS. They are putting a sticker on a graded coin, not slabbing a coin. It is by definition Heresay information who's profitability depends on creating and exploiting fear in the market place about the quality of grades. No matter how tight or perfect NCG ever becomes at grading coins, CAC will still exploit the grades, instilling fear on into the market in order to drive their profits.

There is no ethics here. NONE.


Ruben

PS - BTW - Bosky was a nice guy and Milken poured a ton of money into charity. And Andrew Carnige claimed that new steel that was cheap and stronger was defective and told his customers that. Does that sound familiar? Of course his customers had no independent means to make that assessment themselves.

Ruben

 

I have grown tired of this discussion. You may touch my monkey.

 

Hobo, Is that avatar from Total Recall?

 

Yeah. I needed something different.