Grading Morgans

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Good article, Doug. Now if we can only get those eBay sellers to read it and stop listing their VF-20s and AU!

 

Good article and good pictures. No mention of toning, which often shows up on BU silver coins. Suppose we have an coin with lots of toning around the edge and even onto the face of the coin, but no wear and luster present. If it will grade MS65 on wear and luster, how will the toning affect the grade. Would the grading be reduced or is this in "the eye of the beholder"?

 

I looked at those definitions. They dont tell anything useful. Heres what Im saying. PCGS might grade a coin MS-64. On an 1880-O, MS-64 is $1200. MS-63 is $400. How do you tell MS-63 from MS-64????
I have some slabs by lower-tier grading companies that are MS-63. The coins meet the grade. Very nice luster. shiny smooth surfaces with moderate bag marks. But I have a slab marked MS-64. Meets the grade. Or maybe its MS-63, not MS-64. But what would be the difference? The rules in grading are TOO LIBERAL. THEY need to be more specific. How do you really tell the difference? I have a theory. MS-63 is when the bag marks are on the flat surfaces around Liberty' head. MS-64 is when the smooth surfaces are clean, and the bag marks are on the head, in the are of the neck, lower face. I have a theory that sometimes bagmarks are not really bagmarks. If you look closely, what appears to be bagmarks on libertys face might actually be imperfections from the die. Bottomline: The hobby needs more specifics. We need some AUTHORITY in the hobby to define MS-63 and MS-64. Definition would be number of bagmarks and Location of bagmarks. On the rare dates, the jump in price is huge. We need some conformity

 

Again, PhotoGrade will help in this matter

 

Doug, do you have a Morgan collection ? I'd be kinda surprised if you do, since your tastes seem to be more towards the arcane and exotic, unless you're one of those collectors who has dozens of different collections.

About a year ago I looked at Morgans pretty hard, starting compiling information on prices, etc., but I reluctantly decided to indefinitely defer collecting them. My coin budget isn't big enough at this time. They are magnificent coins, though, certainly deserving of their popularity.

 

I use the ANA grading guide when grading coins. I am far from being an expert when it comes to grading. Heck, at a coin club meeting, a member passed some slabbed Morgans and covered the descriptions, and each of us have to grade them. I had a MS63 grade for MS66, an MS65 for an MS63, and so on. And I was cheating, using the grading guide.

However, grading Morgans at 60 or above is very very tricky. The descriptions are not black and white. Even grading Morgan dollars below MS60 can be tough. I love to talk to an expert to know the difference.

 

Good article, boss. Just wanted to mention PhotoGrade

 

ana grading guide/grading morgans

Since I dont have the ANA grading guide, and dont know if or where it is on the internet, can somebody post a reply here, and tell me how ANA defines MS-63 and MS-64 on a Morgan dollar? When some of you say, it takes looking at hundreds and thousands of coins, I understand what you're saying, but I dont agree. If you grade hundreds of Morgans, you're going to have hundreds of inconsistent grades, and hundreds of sliders. I am tired of hearing this word "slider." If you buy a high grade coin, when you go to sell a slider, the dealer buying it is going to slide it downward. Please help me out. what does the ANA grading guide say for MS-63 and MS-64?

 

Here is my opinion on PCGs... I believe that certian scarce issues within a series are held to a tighter standard..... Such as a Washington 55d, this coin is bagmarked to death typically, and quality is very very poor. Not a single coin exists in ms67. I sent one that had a damn good shot.




This coin has superb fields, strong luster and is almost mark free, which is unheard of for a 55d... PCGs gave it a ms66.

I have sent in some others that compared to other years of silver Washingtons, the coins were I thought lock ms66's, but all three came back in 5 holders. PCGs is very tough on the 55d.

There are many many nuansances of any given series and IMO PCGs takes this into account, when one learns these about any given series then can they examine a coin as a PCGs grader might and make a purchasing decision from that prospective.

I specialize in Franklins, and I truely believe I can grade as well if not better then what I have seen from them, though as you know, there is a level of subjectivity to any opinion.

Many factors go into PCG's thinking on a coin.... Here is what I have discovered with many many submissions over the years..

1. PCGs hates haze
2. PCGs hates dull coins
3. Dark toners can also be a negative
4. They love strong luster
5. they love a sharp, bold, strong strike
6. baggy coins or hairlines are a negative.
7. for super color coins, they may give a bump up in grade.
8. the bigger the coin, the more bagmarks you may get away with and still get a ms65.
9. If the coin has super luster, hit free and some nice attractive toning, it becomes a ms67 candidate, such as my 56 Frankie that was pulled from a mint set..





None of this really answers the concern you bring up, what constitutes the difference between a ms63 and a ms64...

Since humans are involved I don't think it is possible to ever get a group of experts to agree....

I can say that MS63 coins tend to be baggy, with hits that are noticable and considered distractions, they tend to have haze, dull unattractive toning, hairlines that are easy missed by the novice grader (hairlines are a grade killer)....

The best advice I can give, is to simply purchase the grade of coin prior to the huge jump in price..

And if you do buy the higher graded more expensive coin, study it closely and ensure you come to a agreement with the assigned grade, regardless of who's holder it might be in..

HepKitty

 

Everything I learned about grading was self taught.

What I learned from PCGs grading was with many submissions, and then I point blank asked a certian high ranking bird over there what gives, and HepDaddyHall gave me some answers that have proven to pay off for me...
Those answers I shared in my previous post.....however, even the list I made is subjective...

 

Honey, I grade you a Ultra GEM MS67FM+ (Full Mustache), a bag mark or 2 keeps you from Monster GEM MS68, plus, you could use some toning, get out in the sun!


= MS67FM+

 

how about thank u Doug