1993 pivoted die clash cent with indent?

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Elendis, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Elendis

    Elendis New Member

    I can't quite make heads or tails of what's happening here. There are raised details on both the obverse and reverse, but I can't make out a specific design or lettering.

    1993 flattened cent obverse.jpg 1993 flattened cent reverse.jpg
    My initial thoughts were that the cent was given a vise job with another coin, but looking further I found close indents on the collar to be inconstant with my prognosis:

    S20200729_0009.jpg

    Is this PMD, and if not, what type(s) of error(s) is(are) this(these)?

    S20200729_0003.jpg S20200728_0014.jpg S20200729_0011.jpg

    Thanks!
     
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    My prognosis.. PMD
     
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  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I concur! ~ Chris
     
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  5. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    It looks like the rim was squeezed. Both sides are damaged.

    You can see that the damage is incused on the reverse. If it was from some sort of unusual, seldom seen type of die clash, how could it leave a raised mark on the die? It extends too far into the coin to be collar damage.

    To paraphrase the 14th century Franciscan Monk and Philosopher, William of Ockham, the simplest explanation is usually the correct explanation.
     
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  6. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    From Merriam-Webster:
    "William of Occam (also spelled "Ockham") didn't invent the rule associated with his name. Others had espoused the "keep it simple" concept before that 14th-century philosopher and theologian embraced it, but no one wielded the principle (also known as the law of parsimony) as relentlessly as he did. He used it to counter what he considered the fuzzy logic of his theological contemporaries, and his applications of it inspired 19th-century Scottish philosopher Sir William Hamilton to link Occam with the idea of cutting away extraneous material, giving us the modern name for the principle."
    And, did you know he had a beard and didn't shave? LOL Okay, I made that up. He was clean shaven and had the tonsure "crown" on his head. Just way too much time on my hands.
     
  7. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies Well-Known Member

    I don't see how the raised line that runs through I C A of America can be PMD? THe obverse portion probably is.
     
  8. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Look at it again. It's incused not raised.

    That Cent is DEFDAM - Definitely Damaged
     
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  9. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies Well-Known Member

    Sorry, But I believe it to be raised. Look at the 4th pic down from the top. To me it looks raised. Especially across the A.
     
  10. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    FYI: The OP says it's indented

    From the first post
    My initial thoughts were that the cent was given a vise job with another coin, but looking further I found close indents on the collar to be inconstant with my prognosis:
     
  11. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies Well-Known Member

    "collar" not field!
     
  12. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies Well-Known Member

    There are raised details on both the obverse and reverse. From the OP.
     
  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Looks like it's damaged.
     
  14. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Do you think the OP was making the distinction of limiting the discussion of the indented mark to the rim area (area in contact with the collar) and not commenting on the adjacent field as well? If I understand you correctly, your saying that the line that runs through the A and extends through the rim on the reverse is raised in the field but indented in the rim.

    The whole thing looks indented to me. Could it be possible that you just seeing an illusion? Or do you think this could be some type of unusual error?
     
  15. Elendis

    Elendis New Member

    Sorry, I didn't properly describe the raised and indented parts of the coin. There is an indent between "AM", "S", and the northeast part of the memorial.

    1993 cent dent reverse.png

    The line extending from ICA to the rim is indented, with a small raised line shortly appearing after leaving the rim. The letters on the reverse near the rim are partially indented at irregular points. I'll try to mark indents with green, and raised features with blue.

    1993 rim line 1.png

    There are also raised features that are on regular areas - there's a line extending from the collar onto the field above R.

    1993 faux rim n dent reverse.jpg

    I was thinking that the indent above the monument could be a separate error from what happened to the collar and field - maybe struck through fragment/brockage - and that the indents/raised features were from some type of clash.

    Trying to match the indents to a design when the indents only partially display the design, the coin is worn from circulation, and there's a very large chance (99.99%) that the "design" is just PMD seems like a sisyphean task. I think I'll take Hoopster's advice and look for more likely errors. Thanks for the critique and analysis. :phantom:
     
  16. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies Well-Known Member

    Not at all, Like I said, I thought it was raised. The OP replied it isn't. Even if it was raised, I didn't imply or state that it was an error. Or the next best thing.
     
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