Well, for one. Is this coin a gem full bands? You answer that, I'll only throw it out for opinion. Is this coin a Cameo Gem Proof Indian cent? Thats 2 examples I picked in the top 5 listings from a seller.....
How about this! Does this look choice BU to you? http://cgi.ebay.com/1908-Barber-Half-Dollar-CHOICE-BU_W0QQitemZ270308140200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item270308140200&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318
To answer a question by asking another question is no way to impart knowledge. I asked that justification be made for your previous statements. But if you can't do that, I'll play along. re: the dime, I count 7 full bands. Should there be more? re: the cent, too bright to tell for sure but it appears proof to me. I don't see any signs of wear, so yes, it's uncirculated. It appears to be weakly struck with minimal wear on the leaves. It's AU I see no wear, just slight toning so yes, I'd call it BU. "Choice" is open to interpretation. Now, guys, how about your opinions?
David, For the record, Choice BU = MS64. The coin in that photograph is MS61 at best and has most likely been cleaned. Maybe you don't think trying to represent a $500 coin as a $1,400 coin detrimentally affects the sellers' reputation, but I do. Furthermore, the fact that the cleaning is not mentioned speaks volumes. You asked for examples and were provided with examples. If you choose to ignore the advice given by two different members of this forum, then you will only have yourself to blame in the end. If you have purchased coins from this dealer in the past, we are not saying that you were ripped off. We are only saying that this dealer engages in selling practices that we do not consider reputable. If you know how to cherry pick the quality coins they offer from those photos, go right ahead and buy from them. Don't say you were not warned. Respectfully, Paul
Although I usually come off sounding argumentative, I'm really just trying to get information to educate myself. Or to impart an opinion that I think is relevant to the subject. When the OP was made, I was simply pointing out that the ICH looked to have problems and didn't match the apparent quality of the other offerings by the same seller. The thread then changed to question the reputation of the seller and I asked what that reputation was. In answer I was told "You may want to rethink your opinion on that." and "... never bought one of their coins just because of the pictures." Neither of those responses gave a bit of information on what I should be looking out for. Asking for further clarification I was shown pictures of five coins the seller is offering. No explanation relevant to my question was given but I was asked to opine about each coin. About the dime, "Is this coin a gem full bands?" If it's not, why isn't it? About the IHC, "Is this coin a Cameo Gem Proof Indian cent?" If it's not, why isn't it? About the first cent, "is this uncirculated?" What do you see that tells you it isn't? About the second cent, "is this gem uncirculated?" There does appear to be a bit of wear on the leaves. This could be wear or just part of the overall weak strike of this coin. About the Barber, "Does this look choice BU to you?" It does to me; what do you see that I don't? While the words "Gem", "Choice", "Brilliant", etc. may have some meaning to you and others, they are by no means universal in usage or meaning. Many graders and dealers simply don't use those words as they impart little information to the grade. As to a $500 coin being passed off as a $1400 coin, we'll have to wait and see where it goes. It's only a little over $100 in the bidding so far. Finally, I would say that a high percentage of all silver coins over 150 years old that have been out in the marketplace (not in someone's drawer) have been cleaned. Some badly, some quite well. Personally, as long as no design detail has been lost, I don't see a problem with it. Can you point out the loss of detail in the Barber?
David, For accuracy's sake, my first post in this thread was the Barber Half Dollar. All of the other comments were made by other members (mods), but I agree with their opinion. You are of the opinion that this seller offers quality coins. The other members have a differing opinion. My opinion is that this seller offers some OK coins and many problem coins. In short, I don't think that you can purchase a coin from this seller and have any confidence that you will get what you paid for or what was described by the seller. If you think that the Barber Half Dollar in this thread looks choice BU then you should really consider only buying NGC and PCGS graded coins because your grading skills are not good enough to make an accurate determination of a coins grade. That coin is either a cleaned coin or an MS61 at best. You can claim that the above statement is only my opinion if you want. However, I used to collect raw Barber coinage on E-Bay and learned a very valuable lesson. Most of the stuff on E-Bay even though it looks good through photo magic is problem material. This coin does not even look good, it is clearly problem material. If you would like to read more about my humility in collecting raw Barber coinage, please visit this thread. http://cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=40415 With regards to the vernacular. Choice BU=MS64 and GEM BU=MS65 and I don't know any dealer that uses them to mean anything else. If you have a source of information that defines Choice BU as anything other than MS64 please point me in the right direction. When I stated that the dealer is trying to pass of a $500 coin as a $1400 coin, that was correct. The dealer knows this coin is not MS64 yet wants the bidders to believe that it is. Let me ask you this. If you were a dealer, would you offer a raw MS64 Barber Half Dollar as a no reserve item on E-Bay? Your answer should be a resounding "NO", as is this dealers, because he is offering a cleaned BU detail Barber Half Dollar and trying to get higher bids by calling it an MS64. Does that seem reputable to you? Your last sentence is the most concerning of your entire post. If you want to buy problem coins, then that is your prerogative. However, cleaned coins are problem coins and to quote Rick Snow "there is no price too cheap for a problem coin." Thanks AJ, came in handy. I have tried to help you David, it is up to you either accept my advice or reject it. Paul
These definitions are from PCGS's web site. Choice - An adjectival description applied to coin's grade, e.g., choice Uncirculated, choice Very Fine, etc. Used to describe an especially attractive example of a particular grade. Gem - Adjectival description applied to Mint State and Proof-65 coins. It also is used for higher grades and as a generic term for a superb coin. It seems like the terms are somewhat less than absolute and can be used to mean whatever you want them to mean. Then there's this, also from PCGS's web site, in reference to cleaning silver coins http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=690&universeid=105&type=1
David - regardless of what it says on the PCGS site, the following are the adjectival grades and what they are accepted to mean. At least by everybody I have ever met who's opinion I would have confidence in. Unc - MS60 & MS61 BU - MS62 & MS63 Choice BU - MS64 Gem BU - MS65 & MS66 Superb Gem BU - MS67 and up
