counterfeit 1915 Ottawa Sovereign coin

well, today I finished up an appraisal, and had to tell my customer he had 4 counterfeit gold coins. Here is one of them. The weight is 4.01 Grams. half as much as it is supposed to be. Enjoy. Feel free to copy this image and use for future reference.

 

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What makes you call this a counterfeit? Teach us!

If I had to guess, I'd say its the dots on the neck.

 

Can you post better pics?

Is this coin cast? (It looks to be from what I can tell.)

 

He did, The weight is wrong

 

D'oh, thanks!

 

Hey Snaz, Did you mean Sydney instead of Ottawa? In the picture it looks like an "s" mint mark.

 

EDIT: I researched and researched and researched.... and found nothing else, other than links telling me this coin was counterfeit. The fields ARE grainy. But here is a NEW website someone sent me I had not previously found.
http://www.cruzis-coins.com/sovs/1915s.html
maybe the thread title can be changed to ...
1915 sovereign Sydney mint.

 

I was wondering the same thing! 4.03 grams is not much off the 3.99 gram weight of a Half Sovereign and is probably considered within tolerance!


Frank

 

i'm not seeing that this is a counterfeit - have you calibrated your scale?

-Steve

 

its a soverign witht he weight of half a sovereign but i have some master copies of counterfeits that will leave most people amazed

 

I think we may be talking about two different coins here?

In Snaz's OP, he says it was half the weight he was expecting it to be... what are the official weights of the gold sovereign and half sovereign?

 

The Gold Half Sovereign should weigh 3.9940 grams and the Gold Sovereign should weigh 7.9881 grams!

Corrected the weight of the Gold Sovereign and Gold Half Sovereign to the Official weights.


Frank

 

i can't tell the diameter of the coin from the picture - the half sovereign has the same design, just in a small diameter. i would imagine he thought the 1/2 sovereign was a full sovereign.

-Steve

 

Well, if he had the proper weights he more then likely had the proper diameters as well.

I think it was the size of a full sovereign but only half the weight... clearly a counterfeit.

 

So do I....My next door Jeweler sells them including all Silver and Gold British Rupee coins.
They are everywhere, untrained eyes may mistake them for Proof Sovereigns.

But in this case I think it a real half Sovereign.

 

i won't be lining up for appraisals from the OP given that:

1. the appraiser thinks the coin is a sovereign when in fact it most likely is a half sovereign (did you measure the diameter?)
2. does not know where it was minted (S is clearly visible)
3. tells the client it is a fake based on his limited knowledge

flame me all you want, but come on, you're playing with other people's money who trust your knowledge. a second opinion might be required after such an appraisal.

-Steve

 

I edited and cropped the pictures and have attached them below. I do not believe that the coin is a counterfeit! I do believe that it is an honestly...slightly worn Gold Half Sovereign minted at the Sydney Mint!


Frank

 

In defense. I made it perfectly clear to the "client" that this was my first appraisal, and that this was an opinion only. I was doing it free of charge, just to gain knowledge myself. Most of what he had was common date dollars and halfs, and tins full of silver Canadian junk. This Half sovereign was in a little 6 pocket binder with 3 other counterfeits. which included counterfeit Gold Maple Leafs. which all came from the same seller. Now, in addition to that. I had never seen a half sovereign before in my life. Ever.
all I know was sovereigns were not minted anywhere else other than Ottawa representing a "C" for Canada.
as soon as I saw the 1915 I was baffled. I weighed it. And searched the fields up and down.
After that I made him aware I had never seen a 1915 dated coin like this, and took pictures and perused the internet trying to learn about what this coin might be. Then I found a website telling me 1915 Sovereigns were commonly counterfeit.
When one has never seen or heard of a half sovereign, and it is in a folder where half of the coins in it are counterfeit, I feel completley comfortable admitting I goofed up. The client has been notified, and the situation rectified.
-Shawn