I found the following on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/one-bust-dollar-1796-very-good_W0QQitemZ180308088598QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item180308088598&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318 I know, I know, Another counterfeit on eBay and of course it's foreign (from Italy) well anyway it has many bids and lots of time left on it, so please help me report it, trust me, I am certain that this is counterfeit. thank you.
Ok, convince me, what makes you say its a counterfeit. Not being a smart$#% just want people to learn from postings like this instead of just making a blanket statement with no explanation. Your certain on this one... WHY? Just to clarify something I do agree with you. : )
It has a rim is one dead giveaway. US coins from this era were struck without a collar, so they should have denticles all the way to the edge. A rim is the result of being struck in a collar...which we didn't begin using until the 1820s or so. So, if a Draped Bust Dollar has a rim it's a fake.
okay. I am certain this is counterfeit because it is foreign. It also shows a distinct lack of detail compared to a genuine piece.thanks.
Like the other poster said dentils don't extend to the edge. The shot of the reverse looks like it's even reeded. Reported.
Just being foreign doesn't necessarily mean it's counterfeit. There are many foreign collector's of American coins...just like there are many American collector's or foreign coins. But, in this case, I agree with you...the coin's a fake.
The rim outs this one as a fake. Note also that the lettering sort of bleeds into the background (see lower left reverse) rather than popping out sharply as on a genuine item.
This is very, very similar to another listing we beat down recently. A good point was made on that thread. These early US coins have a lot of die varieties, so be careful calling "counterfeit" based on number of berries, positioning of stars, leaves, and letters, etc Those things (and more) vary from die to die.
OK let me chime in and see if I can help here. You can not tell by the rim on these pictures, yes we did not use a collar on these coins. We did however have the date etc rolled onto the third side of the coin. This would give it a rim like appearance perhaps? There are 6 varieties listed for the 1796. There is the small date small letters B-03, B-02, B-01 The Small date large letters B-04, B-06 and Large date small letters B-05. Hmmm.. OK so we say its a fake because we have no way of weighing the coin or measuring the diameter. Lets look again at the known varieties. We can say that the coin in question is the small letter variety based on the photograph of the reverse. (positioning of the T in states in relation to the upward leaf.) The date is also the small date. So we have narrowed it down to a possible 3 varieties if its real. Two R3 coins and an R8 coin. Now lets look at the stars. Ooops nothing lines up correctly, we also notice that the stars are way to close to the edge of the coin, The nose on the coin in question belonged to Jimmy Durante and then we can go to the reverse and look at the eagle, the left wing should not touch any of the wreath. The list can go on and on.. What I am trying to do here gang is when we make a statement that something is fake, lets not go on just a gut feeling or throw an ebay seller under the bus. Lets back it up with something of substance. Please take a moment and go to http://earlydollars.org/1796index.htm and take a close look at some real ones. Maybe we can all learn something together here. Have a great night gang.
In both Large and Small Date varieties, the numeral "1" in the date is very, very close to the lowest curl - much closer than the E-Bay coin. For all varieties shown on the website, Star #1 is closer to the bottom curl than the E-bay coin.
1) The edge lettering on these coins spelled out the denomination. "HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT" The date appears on the obverse. The modern Presidential dollars have the date and motto as part of the edge lettering (soon to be changed). 2) Since these coins were struck without a collar the diameter was not uniform. The diameter ranged from 39 to 40 mm and I am sure many genuine coins fall outside that range.
I was aware of that, but I always believed that created a very thin rim if at all. This coin has a very wide rim. Both the coins on this page have a very thin rim: http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/draped_bust_dollars/draped_bust_silver_dollars.html Is that correct or could the stamping on the third side create a rim as think as in the eBay auction?
The edge is applied before the coin is struck so that would not create a "rim". Now on circulated coins, especially lower grade, the denticals can wear together near the edge and have the appearance of a rim.
YEA. Now we have a discussion where some knowledge can be given. That's all I wanted from this. Hobo, Your correct the date is not on the edge of the coin, it does contain lettering just as you have explained. 900fine, nice pickup on the 1.
