1921 and 22 Peace dollar

Greetings,

I recently looked at an interesting 1922 Peace dollar and was hoping to gain some insight. My first thought was that it might be a high relief circulated proof or ....???...due to its unusual depth of detail. Of course it could just be a very well struck coin -but even then, I've not seen one with such pronounced -raised lines in the hair, the tiara and rays. But in looking it over with x10 -I landed on the hair band or tiara as it is often referred to and it shows two very distinct raised lines at top and bottom of the band -that's the first time I've seen such distinction. I then noticed that ALL of the raised lines, including the rays etc are relatively pronounced with the exception of the letter T which appeared to be rather flat??

Granted, this is a toned coin, or dirty since the toning or dark areas are only in the recessed regions of the coin -while the devices are bright -giving it a really pronouned appearance.

I don't collect toned or dirty coins -but the darkened areas were really quite deep and made the clean devices jump out of the fields.

I want to go back and look at it again -but would like to know what the heck I'm looking at....a high relief or very well struck coin. It does appear to have some wear but likely in the AU condition...any one know anything about 1922 high reliefs ?

thanks

 

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According to Breen, there are examples of the 1922 high relief, type of 1921.
They are extremely rare.

High relief, concave fields as in 1921; design modified, two short rays added to coronet (making 11 in all), lettering redrawn (especially noticeable at L and WE TRVST), all hair details stronger, mountain entirely redrawn, feathers strengthed. Matte surfaces like the first 1921's; the only 1922 high-relief dollars. 6 to 8 known.

If you could post a pic that would help.

More than likely it is just a better strike.

 

No. I'm leaning now towards just a very well struck coin. Interesting though, is the single upper raised line in the tiara on this photo. The 22 i looked at had two very distict raised lines.

I suppose if it were a high relief -there would be concavity to the field? y/n ?

Also. THis brings up another Peace dollar curiosity. Most of the 21's I've seen are gray and or white. How can you tell if it is matte or frosty. I do have a 23 that I swear is matte -but I'm not proficient yet between matte and frosty.

thanks for posting that photo -I've never seen a 22 high relief -it looks exactly like the 21 -but i plan to compare later.

 

I think you are correct. It must be an early strike -it is certainly not matte. But, how are you counting the rays? I see 20 in the included photo? No doubt you are well versed in this issue -I thought I was

 

Jeff, It sounds as though you saw a regular proof with some dark toning or dirt which someone may have bathed a little in something mild. How much was the asking price? From the way you described it, if I had seen it, I may have had a hard time walking away from it unless the price was bordering on goofy. ;-)

 

I have a very large referrence library. The Breen encyclopedia is absolutely worth its weight in gold.

 

I think it was $20.00 bucks. But I don't think it was an MS -it may have been -but under a 10X, i could see what i perceived as very faith wear. NOt knowing that proofs existed, I passed on it since 22s lower than MS are in $5 range.

At this point, I'm thinking now "circulated proof" ?? -but how rare are those and how can one tell if he is looking at a circulated proof or not? Are these any more valuable than MS?

 

Actually, with silver at $7.18 or thereabouts (I haven't looked at Kitco today) a cull Peace is worth a little under $5.00 melt. One in F or better should bring $7.50 at least. Anyway, I bought some Peace dollars today with rim dings or other slight probs at $6.00 @. $5.00 each is last year's price .;-)

The detail you're describing fits with the photo in the thread above of a regular proof. In a coin known for low relief in the business strikes, the high detail would be the tipoff that you're seeing a proof. Proofs turn up among circulated coins from time to time, so that isn't really too unusual. And, yes, even a circulated proof in this particular coin would bring more than a BU 1922 would, though the price guides may not mention anything less than P60-something in pricing the proof version of the coin.

I might have bought that one if I'd seen it. I would have thought I was getting a 1922 High Relief and would have been on cloud 9 for a day or two maybe until somebody busted my bubble. ahaha

 

The August 28, 2001 issue of Numismatic News contained the following announcement:

"First circ. high relief '22 found."

"The first reported high-relief 1922 Peace Dollar, struck for circulation and not as a matte or satin proof, was found and on display at the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation table at the A.N.A. convention.
The owner, who did not want to be identified, said it is confirmation that not all 35,401 coins struck were melted.
He added that he had no immediate plans to sell it, but he would in a year or so."

 

Now I'm working off memory -but there was some minor wear on the coin -but not sure how that effects the worth of a proof. But as a collector, value or not -it might be nice to have in the collection

 

As to proofs which have been circulated, a really scarce proof such as a '21 or'22 proof Peace dollar would still be very valuable even with some problems. It would be an amazing thing to find such a valuable proof in circulated and partially cleaned condition, but stranger things have happened. The high relief '22 business strike Jody's post reported was a great find for someone. You may turn one up yourself someday. Heck, you might find that '22 proof yet.

I'm an admirer of the Peace dollar design and always have been since the first time I saw the reverse with the eagle standing on that rock. I've never liked the spread eagle with arrows nearly as well. It's too Roman looking for me, but the standing eagle images on the Peace dollar and on the Walker half reverse are very lifelike compared to the spread eagle designs.

 

Are there any standout differences to distinguish a 1922 low relief proof verses an early business strike? I see the difference in the high relief mountain.

?

 

I asked this below -but in rereading your reply -are there any tell-tale signs to distinguish the low relief 1922 proof from just a well struck business strike -and why are there no mintages posted on 21 and 22 proofs??

 

Okay sir, I believe I have found your answer.

For the low relief mintage, 3 are known.

For the high relief, 6 to 8 are known.

The low relief, flat fields, thinner letters and numerals, long, thin curved tail to R in TRUST, thin rays in coronet (13 tall, 12 short), four large berries in branch, leaves larger and heavier, mountain range again entirely different.

This info can be found on page 460 in the Walter Breen's Complete encyclopedia of US and Colonial coinage.

 

Interesting. Have you seen the actuall coin pics posted in the first section? -I've been studying those photos -but having a darn difficult time -probably helps to have coin in hand. Looks like the standout item is the mountain here also as in the 21 proof.

 

I have viewed the photos, but it would be very difficult to actually state with any certainty on a coin without seeing the actual coin. I for one, have never seen a proof Peace Dollar. Only photos. My suggestion to you is to have your coin looked at by a grading service or a well versed individual that specifically deals in Peace Dollars. Just because a few are known, doesn't mean there isn't another one out there waiting to be discovered. With no actual mintage numbers, the total number of pieces is anyones guess.

 

unfortunately -I do not have one. I was posing a description of one I saw at a show but did not buy.

who would have thought a common 22 might not be so common