Where to start??

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Steven Michael Gardner, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Since I started collecting coins, I have learned so much, but not nearly enough...
    One process I have not mastered is where to start when one comes upon a coin
    with no ID, no idea who is represented on the coin, and a very general guess
    at where it comes from??

    I turn coins over quite a bit and i always like to pass on more information about a
    coin than when I received it, most of the time coins have a general identification
    when purchased, however I always prefer to reference coins so that I know
    more about them, and know they are well documented with other coins of the same type.

    So instruct me where to start? Here is a coin with no ID, I feel is interesting and of nice quality, I will most likely pass it on by selling it, or give it to my grandson for his collection depending on what it is? Size 17.7mm Weight 2.8gm.
    2333-Apollo-Lyre-.jpg
     
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  3. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    I would start with reading ? The lettering is Greek, and reads Perinthion, that means of Perinthos. Unfortunately there were multiple places by this name, so you possibly have to check a few. But Perinthus, Thrace seems the most likely. Combine "Perinthos/Perinthus" with "Lyre" and you are probably halfway to an attribution.

    After i typed this, i did what i said. I did not know the coin previously, but found a reliable internet reference within several minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  4. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

     
  5. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    This is exactly what I am interested in is getting down to the actual starting point.
    Now you indicated Read, where on the internet gives the ability to read and comprehend ancient Greek, I don't suppose a language translator could assist
    in this regard? Frankly my memory is far from exceptional, so I hope you are not suggesting that I need to learn how to read old world languages, or are you...?
     
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    This statement truly disturbs me.

    I purchase from Sellers whom I trust, and that have a solid knowledge of the Market they are in. There are actually several Sellers on CT whom I trust, and feel that have a solid grounding, and most times are EXPERTS when they represent their product/ Coins. However, those Sellers here are not constantly ASKING for free attribute advice. Rather they are showing great coins and EDUCATING us from their personal collection.

    And, yes I go to their sites when I want to buy their coins. (Usually the coins they post are from the PERSONAL collections.)

    Personally, I am no expert, and I do not sell coins. I have a reasonable collection. I feel that, even though you are being "open", that you are posting here on CT for information, attributes, and how-to's for free. It appears you are NOT to advance your Hobby, but to ENRICH your BUSINESS.

    I would not be interested in helping your cause. I would rather you USE THE SEARCH function in the upper right corner of the screen, or google for info, and search for all the info you need. Get yourself in to an expert position, THEN start posting coins, attributed, so that we can enjoy the Hobby together.

    Otherwise, you NOT being an Expert, SELLING coins to other people as a BUSINESS, is something I cannot help you or support you with.

    This is my free advice, but is the last of it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  7. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    The research should be done BEFORE you buy a coin not after...
     
  8. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    For maximum learning, try to write down what you see before you look it up. Later, when you see what the experts said, you can see what you got right and what you got wrong. I'll try:

    Obv: Male head facing left, helmet? decoration?, within circle of dots
    Rev: Lyre or Kithera, letters "box" EPIN OI~N, within circle of dots

    You don’t need to learn to read ancient Greek. You need to learn the capital letters of Greek. When I was starting out I made a web page of the letters at http://snible.org/coins/alphabet.html

    Using the Greek alphabet, we can improve the inscription, cutting and pasting from your favorite Greek alphabet site. Find the closest match to each letter:

    ΠΕΡΙΝ ΘΙΩΝ

    For an American to pronounce that we need to change it into the Latin alphabet. The latin letter for Greek is the first letter of the name (or first two if the second is “h”). So we have

    ΠΕΡΙΝ ΘΙΩΝ => Pi Epsilon Rho Iota Nu Theta Iota Omega Nu => PERIN ThION

    Just pronounce that “Perinthion”. We saw Greek letters, so this is Greek, so go to https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/i.html and look for cities that start with words like this. That should get you to the city name.

    Enjoy your new coin business. If you see me buying something from you, it is probably extremely rare and worth more than you charged for it.
     
    svessien, Orfew, DonnaML and 5 others like this.
  9. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

     
  10. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Thank you, this is a very educational post and your alphabet site is exactly
    what will help not only me but anyone with ancient coins that grandpa collected and had stored in the attic before he passed away.
    This is exactly how I first got going with ancient coins and without those who have acquired coin experience being willing to freely teach others, how will this hobby grow the next generation...
     
    DonnaML and Co1ns like this.
  11. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Not all coins are bought...
     
  12. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    I think this is a bit poor given the context. OP posted in another thread for an ID and was attacked for not disclosing he was selling coins. Donna suggested he disclose it in further threads in the sake of transparency, and now he's attacked again for following that advice and being transparant.

    I've been auctioning off coins in 99c auctions and making a few bucks off it. After time scrubbing and ID'ing I'd definitely be better off taking another shift at work. It's not some take over the world money making operation, but a self-reinforcing hobby and learning experience.

    I haven't listed any of the three I've posted here seeking ID help, and don't plan on it as I like those coins. I also haven't shared any of the ones I have ID'd myself and I know I'm auctioning off, as that felt strange.*

    That's my perogative though.

    Though I don't think the OP should offer COA's on his ebay, pretending experience; if he's disclosing he might sell a coin when asking here for ID help, I don't see a problem. If you don't like it, don't help, but I don't feel there's any need to throw a bunch of negativity and abstract morality into what could of otherwise been an educational discussion for the whole community.

    Nice coin OP - whether your Grandkid inherits that, the money you make selling it, or a hobby coin business, you've done him well!

    *What I have admittedly been doing is inserting thank you notes accompanied by a LRB into modern mint bag sales to spread the virus - sue me :D
     
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  13. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    I am sorry my post is disturbing for you, sometimes no matter what one does or says, there will always be some who one can not please.
    Your best free advice is very sound to purchase from sellers that you trust, unlike the past, when it could take many years if not decades to become experienced with ancient coins, today with the internet things have accelerated, yet without experts freely passing on their knowledge how will we grow the next coin generation.
    Many of my coins too, are from a personal collection, my grandfathers, who is no longer with me, and I wasted the precious time I did have with him by not asking and learning more in depth about his coin hobby when I should have..!
    Yes, I am here to enrich myself, with knowledge that is, and have never tried sell or insinuate that I have coins for sale, until my last post when some individual comments were negative toward me that I did not disclose that I have sold and currently sell coins, simply because I have a lot of them, thanks to grandpa.
    So now I do disclose it, and still, there is the negative comment, one can't seem win can I on this forum?? But of course none of the experts here on this forum have ever sold coins, heaven forbid.
    If I were to advertise anything, it would be what I do for a living, a professional wildlife artist as you can see from my personal icon on my posts, for that, yes I have a website and you are welcome to come an enjoy it, simply do a internet search for my name and I will be one of the top sites.
     
  14. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the support, please though be aware of my situation, as I don't wish on you some of the same negativity .
    As for my COA, I think it comes from my art profession, I just can't stand not looking professional, no matter what I do...I do not state I am an expert but a coin enthusiast.
    This is me passing on what I have researched and include it mainly for educational and ID reference purposes, I also will repurchase any coin sold by me for any reason for a lifetime, If I make a mistake, it will not become your mistake.
     
    DonnaML and Co1ns like this.
  15. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    As someone who derives personal enjoyment in attributing ancient coins, I find myself much more inclined to provide assistance to someone looking to glean information on how to attribute.

    While still willing to offer help (partly for my own benefit), I'm less excited to assist a person looking for someone else to do the legwork to attribute coins for them; when the primary intent is to flip/sell them.

    I'm fairly new on this board, but I've already noticed a handful of posters here whose only contribution to the board is to ask for people to attribute coins for them.

    I'm reminded of the adage concerning the hungry man. It's along the lines of: "Don't give a man a fish. Give him a fishing pole and teach him how to fish."

    Unless it's an extremely rare/almost unique coin, chances are strong that there is a reference to the type located somewhere through utilizing the multiple complimentary resources available on the internet.

    Once one gets a little experience recognizing types, portraits, legends, deities, city/mint names etc. etc. etc., the task gets easier.

    With Greek legends, the simple process of learning the 24 Greek letters and how they translate to Latin letters helps a lot. Pretty soon, seeing a 'P' or an 'Σ' or a 'Λ' will become 2nd nature in knowing that they translate to 'R'ho, 'S'igma and 'L'ambda.

    I can spend ample time hunting down an attribution (even for a coin not my own), yet, as stated above; I enjoy it.
     
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  16. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    *Double Post*
     
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  17. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    There you go. Wanting to propperly ID and attribute your grandad's coin collection before parting with it is hardly some gross act of burgeoius capitalism worthy of mob execution.
     
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  18. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    It's just that so many come on boards like this one and ask for help after they bought coins that they know nothing about. The best piece of advice is "Know the coin or know the seller"

    The more coins you look at the more you will begin to recognize similarities. My advice is to look at as many genuine coins as you can. Forum's member gallery is an excellent place to start.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  19. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    "Know the coin or know the seller" is as sound as it gets... but that will not teach the myriad things one needs to know to get to the point of "knowing the coin" Many sellers are fine answering some questions for their customers, but unless one does a lot of buying, many sellers do become annoyed/vague with to many questions not concerning the specific coins purchased, this I have some experience with as well... Yes the more one does anything repetitively, the more familiar they become, however for beginners that can be a long process, and todays generation can become impatient, bored and give up before ever finding the joy of coin collecting. I myself have learned as you instructed to recognize Roman era coins, emperors, deitys, exergue types, etc. however Wildwinds has organized lists for such things, However the eras before the Romans are not nearly as well organized and images and symbols can be very abstract to a beginner to start a search from scratch.
     
  20. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    See if you can get hold of a copy of Richard Plant's Greek coin types and their identification.

    I found it frustrating when I first started that in order to identify the coin I had to know where it came from.

    You can try sites like acsearch, asiaminorcoins, CNN etc.
     
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  21. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

  22. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Thank you, I have never been much of a book reader, novels and such unlike my wife, I could go on & on with the series of huge books she flies through and then critics the movies versions... bit i digress, I notice this book was published in 2008,
    do you find it currently up to date, I guess a lot has changed with coin collecting
    since the internet, just asking your take as I am considering ordering one..!
     
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