Desert patina or doctoring? Sent coins to NGC (NGC's stance on repatination)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Aurelianus, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    Many years ago I was taught to sniff suspect coins. Sometimes you can smell the glue.
     
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  3. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    I missed this thread somehow, only just spotted it.

    @Aurelianus, you have raised a very good question.

    Your question did not get a direct answer but, if you read between the lines and blow away the smoke, it is there. ( you were 100% correct )

    Fake sand patina is perfectly acceptable on its OWN as long as it is not attempting to hide POSSIBLE tooling or damage, Barry then went on to admit that it is pretty much impossible to know what is underneath said fake patina :rolleyes:
    At no point have i seen a denial of said practice using Fake sand patina as the only qualifier, lots of lurking in the grey area ;)

    It is very difficult to get an honest or straight forward answer when money is involved, too much waffle about nonsense for my liking.

    Just my thoughts.

    p.s. Did you buy the coins from either agent A or Z ?
     
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  4. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    It's kind of funny -- in an unfortunate way! -- that almost everyone here knows exactly who A and Z are.
     
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  5. Aurelianus

    Aurelianus Member

    I guess now I can share: coins purchased from Z around seven years ago.

    Certainly plenty of grey area with sand but I think there are a great number of coins with real sand. These two are proof.

    Right now working on a post about how to better spot fake sand when buying online based on what ive learned. It's no science but nobody seems to want to approach this part of the question.
     
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  6. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    You are either the luckiest buyer or you have at least 1 coin that has been doctored.
    Just because they are now in slabs does not give any proof that the surface deposits are natural, i refer you to my above post.

    What i find confusing is the TPG was happy to give such coins a Sand Patina Designation until 2013, why did they remove it ?
    It must have been good business to include it so what changed ?
    Was it the foot stamping within the numismatic community who were clearly tired of such shenanigans that caused it ?
    Sadly i doubt these questions will receive a straightforward nor honest answer.

    The brief appearance of the far rarer " mountain patina " was less well received, i guess that ship had already sailed ;)
     
  7. Co1ns

    Co1ns Active Member

    Very interesting thread @Aurelianus.

    IMO most of Z's applied patina coins *really* stand out, the colours are really unnatural, kind of looks like aerosol art. Haven't seen any examples in this thread, but readily viewable in his store along side genuine examples.

    If that second slabbed coin from the OP's post is indeed applied, it is work of a much higher quality.
     
  8. Johnnie Black

    Johnnie Black Neither Gentleman Nor Scholar

    If you look at the inventory of A or Z you’ll find that nearly all of their coins have that same sand tone. A’s is more orange red and Z’s is more beige. What a coincidence that all of their coins come from one of the same two sand pits. Must be a lot of coins down there.
     
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  9. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Here's my favorite (read: irritating) example of a fake patina.
    [​IMG]
    a little brushing with a toothbrush and micro-crystalline wax revealed the true nature of the patina.
     
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