Ebay buy turns into comedy

those look whizzed to me, which is too bad. They all have lines. Only 2 might be non bodybag material

 

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Something that happened 4.5 years ago being the case in point.

 

There is no such policy that requires a seller to offer a refund if the buyer is unhappy with the purchase.

A seller is allowed to state no returns period.

The only time this is void is if the item was significantly misrepresented. How PayPal views "significantly not as described" varies based on who is handling the case. For a subjective matter like condition of a coin, it could be a toss-up who wins.

 

Good Luck with that.... Paypal sides with the buyer 99.9% of the time IMHO.

 

1) What makes you think that #4 & #5 aren't unc? The cheeks look a little flat, but the rest of the coin appears fine.

2) How many original rolls of ~100 year old coins have you opened? I've opened several and know that the quality and appearance of the coins can greatly differ.

I'm currently working my way thru an 85 year old sealed bag which contains original rolls. Quality and look varies wildly and I'm positive that no one touched these coins.

 

I have never opened a roll older that 1935 to be honest. Coins #4 and 5 are not unc, the pics aren't that great.

To be honest, I would have never bid on this lot if there was not a buyer protection policy in place. If they were unc, it was a gamble I would have lost fair and square.

 

I am unfamiliar with this. What happened?

 

:secret: There are a few of us here that know and will NOT share. Let us just leave it at that.

 

4 and 5 have CLEAR hair line scratches all over them. Even my 13 year old daughter said -- Ouch - and hated those coins. If they had more hair lines they would look like Phylis Diller.

So this is confusing me. The evidence in front of us both is mighty clear that the coins have been harshly cleaned.

So whats up with your analysis? Maybe you can give greater detail of how you think those lines running all over the coins aren't cleaning and that these are still BU coins?

Ruben

 

something I'm really not happy about at all on all kinds of levels


Ruben

 

From the pictures, I see no hairlines on the coins #4 & #5. I see a significant number of marks and chatter all over the fields and the coins do not look to be high quality to me, but I do not see hairlines. From the pictures I cannot tell if the coins are actually uncirculated or not. It would not surprise me if they graded AU55 nor would it surprise me if they graded MS62.

The coins being BU (generic term for MS60 or higher) and being cleaned are not mutually exclusive.

What I do see in the pictures is some uneven coloring which is likely the result of a dip. Coin #2 has it at ERTY of Liberty, in front of Lincoln, and on his jacket. Coin #3 behind and in front of the lower half of Lincoln. Coin #4 all around the top half of Lincoln's head and the bottom around the rim. Coin #1, 2, & 4 also have similar spots on the reverses. This is a very typical look of dipping copper and not rinsing it well enough. It may not have been a harsh cleaning and only a light dip and other than the residue, no other negative signs.

 

I have been working on the website issues tonight ( grrrrrrr), and will leave my " better " camera set-up out untill tommorow and take better pics of #4 and 5. The pics posted last night were quickies, handheld and without my photo set-up.

The 2 coins will be carded and tossed into the bargain bin for shows. Or sent to SGS, I have not decided yet.

 

Well I don't know what to tell you. We can make a Juniors cheese cake wager that they are body bagged when they are submitted for slabbing. To me it is nothing more than wishful thinking to believe those coins aren't whizzed, cleaned or whatever and that is anything close to an original surface.

If you think those are BU, you should buy them from Jack for $100 or whatever their going price would be for them is MS or BU red.

The only one that stands even a chance of not being tampered with is #2, IMO.

Ruben

 

G

With all due respect, I think your contradicting yourself here. If you can see them as dipped with spots, that would make them not BU Red as far as I know and you said you didn't see any problem with them.

Just for reference, once again, this is my "cleaned" Flying Eagle which is much much better than any of those coins and was body bagged except from ANACS

 

Only one stands a chance at 63 red, 2 would BB for color, and the other 2 are just generic BU VDB's......nothing to slab here unless I come up with a 19 coin sub and need to fill it up.

 

I'm not in the habit of buying coins for what they are worth. I like to buy coins for well under their value in order to resell.

Based on the pictures, these coins are lower grade unc at best. That's not the area I generally deal in. I also would not buy them as they appear to have been dipped and I prefer to do the dipping on copper as it is tricky.

Dipped is not the same as cleaned. The term cleaned refers to coins that show evidence of the cleaning - meaning moved metal (hairlines). Dipping is just the immersion of the coin in a solution to remove surface contaminates. Dipping coins occasionally result in a coin being labeled cleaned by a TPG, but it is rare and the result of being improperly (over) dipped. Proper dipping does not make a coin a problem coin.

The term BU is a generic term to indicate the coin is uncirculated. A coin can be BU (uncirculated) and dipped. It can also be BU and cleaned, bent, or holed. BU as the generic undefined term refers to wear only.

Your Flying Eagle cent looks cleaned. The color is all wrong. It has a pinkish hue which is starting to retone. Color wise, I don't think your FE is "much much better" than the Lincolns posted. In fact, based on the pictures I believe the Lincolns would pass for problem free with many people while the FE would not.

 

There seems to be more going on here than is being said.

First, the seller has thousands of sales and has a 99.5% positive feedback. The only 4 negatives he's had in the past year were concerning packaging, slow shipping (resolved with the buyer retracting the comment), a small dent on a coin's edge (probably a legit complaint) and selling the same item twice (no evidence given by buyer, who did not say that he didn't get his item - possibly used the same photo to sell two items (not coins)). None of this seems to indicate the seller is out to defraud anyone.

Second, the tone and wording of his emails is a bit defensive and over the edge, but we don't have the emails you sent to him. Sometimes an innocent comment can be perceived as a threat and the responses are escalated from there.

Third, I'm sorry but I don't see in the photos (his and yours both) what you're apparently seeing in-hand. I do see lots of what appear to be bag marks but no dings or obvious scrapes, nicks or gouges. I don't see any wear evident. I don't see any parallel markings that might be associated with harsh cleaning or "whizzing". I don't see the pinkish hue that usually results from dipping. Perhaps better quality photos would help.

They look to me to be MS-60, but not more than that.

I'm not trying to defend or accuse anyone here but I can't help but think that there's more here than meets the eye. Your experience with this seller seems atypical.

Finally, I've bought many items on ebay and I have been burned on a few. Because of past experiences I no longer buy anything costing over $50 without first contacting the seller and verifying what is being sold and how it will be packaged and sent. It's simply a lot easier to deal with things before they become a problem.

 

1st email:
Still not recieved, do you have a tracking # by any chance? THANK YOU !!!!
Jack

2nd email I was P'd when opening the package)
received today. These coins are NOT as described. They have been dipped and cleaned to appear uncirculated. There are not of any value. A refund is expected, these are not AT ALL as you described. I have reported this item to Ebay and filed a Paypal claim.

3rd email:
Sir
I am not trying to rip you off or swap coins at all. I expected uncircuated coins, I did not receive them. I will simply send them back as received. Check my feedback also, I am a powerseller with 100% feedback. I own a coin company and have impeccable referances.
I am sorry you are going to fight this in such a nasty manner.
Jack

4th email:
I just want to return the coins you sent, not to switch them.


5th email:

Thank you for calming down.

I fell the returning them is the best thing to do, if I were to make a counteroffer, you would think I was trying to leverage you, I am not.

I am also a coin dealer that deals in many coins of very high value, I do not need to cheat anybody to get them. I buy and sell coins for a living and would do great harm to my reputation if I were to play the switch out game. I think you can tell from my feedback ( 100% ) that I am a straight shooter.

If you will agree thru paypal to accept the return, you will receive exactly what you sent me, the exact coins. If you make a counter offer thru paypal, I will consider it.


Thank you, and no, I will not neg your feedback over this.
"Jack

 

Now I know why I usually don't open these eBay threads.

As an aside, remind me never to get on Ruben's bad side.

Also, I agree with Greg's assessment on this situation....Mike