Byzantine Weights from Roman Coins, something new to me

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by rrdenarius, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Coin weights from Old Coins
    I often see an ancient coin that is new to me. Most of the time, I pass on it because it does not fit my collecting area: Roman Republican coins, cast bronze money from Italy and Roman scale weights. This week four interesting pieces arrived in my mail box. They are new to me. Five lots in Leu Numismatik’s Web Auction 12 were ancient coins that were turned into scale weights. These weights were for checking the weight of gold Solidi or Semissis.
    I could use some help with identifying the coins that were converted to coins. Some of the coins are missing or damaged. An exact ID to RIC # is not needed, but I would like to determine the emperors. My best guesses will be posted below.
    DSCN4594.JPG DSCN4589.JPG
    Denomination – several names are used for the sizes of these weights. They are not normally described as fractions of a Roman ounce (VNCIA), but that is my reference point.
    * 1/6 VNCIA, 1 Solidus, 1 Nomisma, 4 Scripula, 24 Siliquae
    ** 1/12 VNCIA, 1 Semissis, 1/2 Nomisma, 2 Scripula, 12 Siliquae


    top right - *; 4.34 grams; 13.3 x 13.9 mm
    Circa 5th-7th centuries. Square Byzantine coin weight for a solidus made from a 4th century follis dating to the 360s-370s, perhaps of Jovian or Valentinian I.
    Obv. - Pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed imperial bust to right.
    Rev. - VOT V / MVLT / X within wreath.

    top left - *; 4.28 grams; 21 mm dia
    Circa 5th-7th centuries. Round Byzantine coin weight for a solidus made from a 4th century follis that was serrated. Thick earthen deposits, otherwise, very fine.
    Obv - Pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed imperial bust to right, [...]NVS P F AVG. I wonder if the marks on the emperor's face have meaning.
    Rev - REPARATIO [REI PVB] / SM... Emperor standing facing, holding Victory on globe in his left hand and raising kneeling female figure wearing turreted crown with his right.

    bottom right - **; 2.19 grams; 13.5 x 14.4 mm
    Circa 5th-7th centuries. Square Byzantine coin weight for a Semissis made from a Constantinian follis. Intended to serve as a weight for a semissis, but carries the denomination mark 'N' for Nomisma on the obverse!
    Obv - Laureate imperial head to right; N engraved over the head.
    Rev - Campgate with no doors and two turrets; above, star. [P]ROVI[DEN-TIAE AVGG]; in ex – star???

    bottom left - **; 2.43 grams; 15.0 x 15.6 mm
    Circa 5th-7th centuries. Square Byzantine coin weight for a Semissis made from a Constans centenionalis.
    Obv - Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust of Constans left, holding globe; [D N CONSTA-NS P F AVG]. Note, this is just a guess. It looks like there is some silvering on the coin.
    Rev - Soldier advancing right, head to left, holding inverted spear in his left hand and leading barbarian with his right from hut under tree; in field above, Γ. [FEL TEMP REPA-RATIO]; [CONSIA*] all of the examples I found have the same letters in ex.
    A couple of attempts to improve the obv pic.
    DSCN4596.JPG coin as scale wt cons 3 obv cele 6.30.20.jpg

    How do these weights work? I checked the weights vs several coins in my collection and found both Semissis weights balanced well with a Byzantine coin I bought recently.
    DSCN4595.JPG

    DSCN4585.JPG
    This is my best impression of the scale on the back of a Claudius Quadrans.
    Claudius scale reverse tin 9.17.jpg
     
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  3. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    I am curious. Most LRBs are thin. The one in the upper right looks quite thick. I don't see how cutting down a LRB would net you 4.28 grams. Are you sure this wasn't a scale weight struck on purpose, meaning the mint made them and struck them with a coin die, but they were meant from day 1 to be a weight?
     
  4. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    I agree, the weight seems thick for a LRB. The right weight is 3.1 mm thick vs 2.1 mm for left. The sides of all the square weights are straight.
    I do not know how the seller determined dating for these, but 5th to 7th centuries would be 100+ years after the coins were struck. The dies were probably not around that long.
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  5. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    Fascinating The only similar things I noticed are from Anglo Saxon graves dating to the 6th and 7th centuries. See Christopher Scull (Archaeological Journal 1990). Similar sets are apparently found in Merovingian Gaul but I have not seen details for those. Here is a poor picture of one find

    https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/11/04/03/026.htm

    I suspect yours might be similar sorts of things – but from a different area completely.

    In the Anglo Saxon “sets” there are some coins that are altered and some that are not, and some that are marked by pellets and some that are not. Relevant is the fact that some re-used coins were clearly near 400 years old when they got buried – and most would be maybe 200 years old. Often the only reason to think a coin was being used as a weight is the fact that it was obsolete and found in a grave with a set of scales and a bunch of other miscellaneous weight objects.

    Trying to figure out the weight standards of the Anglo Saxon groups is a bit of a nightmare – there hardly seems to be one. It has crossed my mind that when these guys died their relatives maybe kept the honest weights and just buried the ones that it was best not to talk about too much (this is half a joke)

    The standards of your weights seem probably OK for a solidus but high for a dinar. Weights would only be used for precious metal coins – so probably these are for Solidi – but I suppose its also possible that they were used by apothecaries to measure drachms

    Rob T

    PS - I see you weigh by the approved method :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
    rrdenarius likes this.
  6. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    Maybe "Byzantine" in the sense these were made after Constantine. I see no explanation for them really except contemporary to the images struck on them, made as a scale weight on purpose at least for the one.
     
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