Hosed by PCGS on this Walker

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by MercuryBen, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. MercuryBen

    MercuryBen Well-Known Member

    I cracked this Walker from an old NGC 67 holder and submitted raw. I paid a small fortune for it, way over list. I only crack if I'm 100% sure a coin is undergraded, otherwise I submit for cross. I had no doubt this Walker would go 67 or higher. I was wrong. PCGS gave it a 66.

    I can't complain because that is always the risk you take when you crack, and I've won the crack-out game much more often than I've lost. But this one really stings. I will be cracking it out again.

    The TrueView really shows how clean, lustrous, well-struck and beautiful this Walker is. How this goes below 67 is absolutely beyond me.
    39598528_medium.jpg 501026-1.jpg
     
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  3. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Getting a grade higher than MS-67 for a coin from this era is an unrealistic expectation. PCGS has graded 6 in MS-68 and one in 68+. There is a chance those numbers are inflated by resubmissions although it’s a small one. They have graded 376 in 67 and 57 in 67+.

    Some dealers have found that this is a game where they want you to submit multiple times to get what you want. Using their price guide, the quote goes from $140 in 66 to $500 in 67. The 67+ number is $2,250. PCGS is aware of these numbers and does not give out honor grades like candy.

    Looking at your coin, I see a number of tiny marks on Ms Liberty’s body. That could be the reason for the MS-66. You have to decide if spending more money for grading on this coin is a good investment or good money going after bad.
     
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  4. MercuryBen

    MercuryBen Well-Known Member

    I have had good success with cracking out and getting 67+FB Mercury Dimes from this period, but then again, I am far more expert in Mercs than Walkers. It amazes me that some collectors have insane expertise across five or six different coin series -- it would take me another five years of close study in Walkers to gain the same level of expertise I have in Mercs.

    Both of these 45D Mercs went 67+FB in the same submission, and the 45D Merc actually has a lower pops in 67+FB than the 42 Walker in 67. I think there is some chance PCGS just didn't want to give me too many high grades in the same submission.

    With submission costs, I netted out even or maybe slightly positive for the whole submission.

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  5. QuintupleSovereign

    QuintupleSovereign Well-Known Member

    At a certain point, I really don't see how there's much difference between a 66 and a 67; no grading service can be truly objective in assigning such grades.
     
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  6. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Yes, but that extra point often adds a ton of money to the price. When registry fanatics get involved, logic and good sense sometimes go out the window. Would you pay $28,200 for a 1942 Walker in MS-68? To me there no 1942 Walker in existence that is worth that amount. Why is the record for an NGC graded coin, in the same grade, $7,188?

    “Registry fever” is an expensive disease. I’m glad I got only a mild case of it and recovered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    One could say that about the difference between MS63 and MS64, which by your analysis means that grading is meaningless.

    Also, grading is subjective and despite the best efforts of the TPGs to assign standards for grading, each individual grader will still have biases towards certain elements of grading. The coin in question has the overall appearance, luster, and eye appeal of an MS67 Walker, but as John Milton pointed out, it does have some small marks and a grader who favors surface preservation would be inclined to grade the coin MS66.
     
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  8. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    It's a beauty! If you dont get it into the holder you want, I'd be a buyer if you part with it :)
     
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  9. MercuryBen

    MercuryBen Well-Known Member

    I generally agree, although I do see a major difference between 66 and 67 for Mercury dimes (on average of course). The astronomical prices for some 68 coins are ridiculous, especially when most are no better than a nice 67.
     
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  10. GenX Enthusiast

    GenX Enthusiast Forensic grammatician

    I'm with OP on this one. I have a 1946 D PCGS gold shield MS66, and it's not nearly as nice as this one. With its incredible eye appeal and perfect fields, yours is way above average for a 66. Send it to CAC, then sell it to Legend for a LARGE fortune.
     
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  11. BuffaloHunter

    BuffaloHunter Short of a full herd Supporter

    That has to be one of the nicest Walkers I've ever seen. Absolutely beautiful! As to the grade, I agree that it should not have been bumped down but, if this would have been my coin, I would have left it exactly as it was in the NGC slab.
     
  12. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I played the crack-out game when I was dealer because there was money to made doing it. As a collector, it's not worth the expense and effort. When it comes time to sell, maybe then it's worth it.

    Grading standards change so much that it's foolish to chase your tail until it comes time to sell. Even then, the speculation factor might net you more money.
     
  13. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    Good that you got a pic of it in the NGC 67 holder.

    But ... did you also VIDEO opening it ?

    It DOES look 67+ to me, but you can't take my grade to the bank.......
     
  14. MercuryBen

    MercuryBen Well-Known Member

    Yeah, live and learn.
     
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  15. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    A couple people I've talked to tend to agree that PCGS has tightened its grading.
     
  16. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I just took a look through TVs of other 66s and 67s. OP was robbed.
     
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  17. Keyman64

    Keyman64 Well-Known Member

    Really pretty coins in this thread. That Walker is stunning. I don't know Walkers but dang that's pretty. If the grade doesn't fit, you must resubmit! :(
     
  18. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I fail to understand why anyone would crackout a 67. It's a gem and with only 3 points to a higher grade, why attempt it?
     
  19. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    PCGS is tight right now.
    They just reopened and are swamped with business.
    I recently got an insulting grade on a Saint & there is some sort of crossover war going on right now.

    Beautiful Walker BTW.
    It looks 67+ to me.
     
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  20. GenX Enthusiast

    GenX Enthusiast Forensic grammatician

    I think the price jumps for each grade were listed in a previous post. PCGS commands higher prices, etc...
     
  21. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    To start the debate over again, I am seeing far more consistent grading from NGC, and seeing NGC coins selling just as well as PCGS. So, I don’t personally gamble with crack-outs anymore, especially with a one grade difference, as that falls within the range of subjective judgement.
     
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