While I can completely understand and relate to WHY you said that, that is quite a leap of faith, and not a leap I'm willing to take... Please see my prior post for the rationale for this response, and if you'd like to discuss it in more detail, please feel free to do so, but the bottom line is that it is my understanding that there is no direct evidence supporting NGC's attribution of these coins as proofs. Said a bit differently, NGC's blessing is only an OPINION, not a fact, and in this case there is no evidence (outside the look of the coin) to suggest it is a specimen, a proof, or a "specimen proof". Is the coin attractive? Undoubtedly. Does the coin look different from other examples? Without question. Is it worth a premium to MS 63's? Certainly. Is it a "specimen proof"? That would be an opinion without a solid basis, IMO. With respect...Mike
with an O mint mark? Then it would have to be a fraud.. just saying. I don't know. But NGC or not it needs pedigree of some kind. Ruben
My opinion is this is just another scammer. Don't be fooled by the pop in to this discussion by himself. I have seen it before. At first I thought maybe a mislabeled slab but he wont even post a photo of it. 100 percent scam.
NGC and all grading services attibute a coin based on an OPINION . . . I agree 100%. However, the COIN MARKET backs the opinion of these services and although much value is illusionary created by plastic, the REALITY of the coin market is people buy plastic. Take the PROOF HIGH RELIEF. PCGS does not grade ordinary High Reliefs as PROOF. However, NGC does. Proof High Reliefs graded by NGC will bring a substantial premium at auction over their mint state counterparts. A $50,000 High Relief Saint in an NGC holder might bring $20,000 in a PCGS holder graded MS opposed to proof. NGC and PCGS offer an opinion, but the market accepts these opinions as GOOD SOLID OPINIONS TO RELY ON. The 1854 O is NGC Serial Number 1653795-002. A call to NGC can confirm it is authentic and this indeed ist he slabbed coin. Anyone who is serious about buying it can work out the details with me regarding inspection and setting an escrow agent so that no one is cheated.
"Anyone who is serious about buying it can work out the details with me regarding inspection and setting an escrow agent so that no one is cheated" OK I'll bite. You let go first. The fish you're looking for isn't here.
We seem to be going in circlces for no good purpose. Neither I, nor anyone else here (as far as I know) have the remotest possibility of buying your coin. Also, no one here is going to help you in any way to sell the coin, other that suggestions on how you should have listed it. I myself contacted you merely out of curiosity to see exactly what it was you offered. I appreciate that you did respond to me but I'm totally in the dark as to your reasons for not publishing pictures of the coin in it's holder (front and back), and why you are hiding its provenance. The way you have handled this is no different than if I were to assert that I have a 1933 Double Eagle, or a 1964 Peace Dollar, or a 1974 aluminum cent, or any of a number of other ultra rare or semi-legal coins. If I say I have it, can anyone prove that I don't? We can't say with authority that you don't have the 1954-O half but without more convincing documentation you can't prove that you do. It's hard to believe that this coin was just laying around for 150+ years and just now magically turns up. Not to say that it couldn't have but your (non) story just doesn't ring true without additional factual information. There have been a minimum of three owners of this coin since it was minted. I'm curious how it was kept secret by previous owners and their heirs. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you seem intent on maintaining more doubt than is necessary. To those here who doubt the existence of any branch mint (New Orleans) proofs for the period, a simple Google search was how I came up with the picture of the 1838-O proof that I posted here earlier in the thread. Bowers and Merena has listed several gold O-mint pieces that aren't in the standard catalogs.
Thank you for your comments. I did not think I would sell this coin on this board, but I did get some good advice on marketing and am appreciate it. Warmly, David
34 years of coin dealing. "we have thousands of rare coins and currency speciments for sale" Uh yuh. http://cgi.ebay.com/1826-Bust-Half-NGC-MS-67-Blast-White_W0QQitemZ220310470893QQihZ012QQcategoryZ11969QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Moon King Against a slate blue nine in the morning late summer sky a waxing gibbous moon gently floats just above the roof tops and trees in this sleepy Brooklyn street. It's ghostly appearance bathed in the morning sun reaffirms the primordial power of nature. This supernatural power is blanketed, some would have you believe by coincidence, in a fluffy aureole throne of white gleaming clouds just beneath the moons curvature just when it turns dark so that phantom king moon is nestled in its chair. Both king and court gently moving to the west, crowning a perfect morning for us as we stroll purposely on our errands. And accompanying this phantom king an orchestra of cicadas rhythmically raise up their voices, the tempo about that of your heart, foreboding the coming summer heat of mid afternoon. But for now, before the heat of August has had a chance to bake the street, while one can still feel a sensation of coolness from the ocean air breezing lightly over your neck and arms, positive thoughts rush to mind leaving you in an uplifting, tingling, and in a giddy mood. "Now if I can only find someone to share it with", I thought, as I high stepped it to through the streets, hopeful of a good day.
Please, save it. Only fools rely solely on NGC and PCGS opinions, and I suspect you agree. Just so we're clear, I am not doubting the coin is as adveritised, my primary concern is with the NGC attribution. Candidly, I must admit that your asking price disturbs me, but I also recongize and respect your right to ask for any price you see fit. Good luck with your sale...Mike
One small step forward. At least there's a picture now. However, the picture is of the coin in a holder, but not of the holder itself. http://cgi.ebay.com/1854-O-Seated-H...14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
Just in case anyone might be interested.... This coin was purchased on Heritage for $14,950.00 in 2003, already in the specimen holder. http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=324&Lot_No=6197#photo I will let you all draw your own conclusions, but leave you with this thought: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing.
Yes. This coin was once part of the Reed Hawn collection, which included a number of so-called proofs or specimens. Trying to find/get my hands on the 1973 Stacks catalog.... In short, I have no doubt the coin pictured in the eBay coin is the same coin that sold on Heritage, but can't confirm yet it is the Reed Hawn coin (I suspect it will be, as Heritage typically does their homework).
this is something I really don't understand. How do they strike only one coin? Doesn't the machinery at the mint do more than one at a time? If your minting 1 you might as well mint some minimal number, 5 or whatever. Does the mint have a secret donkey driven mint just for single punches? Ruben
You may be thinking of the modern 4-gang presses (e.g., those used to strike Cents for circulation). Proof coins are struck one at a time. Until the late 19th Century all proof coins were struck in Philadelphia by hand (not steam), except for the rare Branch Mint Proofs.
That's just it, Ruben, we don't really know. This coin's status as a proof or specimen or whatever is conjecture. My own personal guess is it is a restrike. Here's some more. The coin being discussed in this thread was most recently sold by Heritage for $23,002.30 just this past July 30 in Baltimore. http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1114&Lot_No=1702 It is interesting to note that the seller's photos appear to be the same those used in this Heritage sale (not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that). I find it most interesting, however, that a coin that sold for $20k just four months ago is attempting to be sold for almost $400k on eBay. Like I said above, good luck.....Mike
Here's some more info on Billionaire Coin & Currency's other coin: Sold for $15,525 in Dec 2002: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=22124&Lot_No=17285 Sold for $12,075 in Jan of 2003: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=308&Lot_No=7097 Now being offered for $26,777 on eBay by Billionare: http://cgi.ebay.com/1826-Bust-Half-...14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318 It is interesting to note that Billionare is (again) using Heritage's photos in the eBay auction. I certainly do hope Heritage has granted them permission to reuse copywritten material...Mike
I don't think Heritage has a leg to stand on. Coins are public domain, and images of coins are also public domain. Most lawyers don't even know this but it was duked out with wikipedia. Unless your adding something artistic to the image, forget about it being copyrighted. Ruben
