Sede Vacante coins.

Here's a very numismatic-related topic that will interest you in light of the death of John Paul II,Pope of Rome.Does anyone know if the Vatican City will be issuing a Sede Vacante series of Euro coins? I know that the Vatican City last issued Sede Vacante coins in 1978,as Paul VI died in 1978,as did John Paul I.If the Vatican City is going to issue some Sede Vacante coins,then it will be the first such series since the changeover to the Euro.Sede Vacante coins were not only issued by the Popedom of Rome,but by other ecclesiastical principalities such as the German State of Regensburg.'Sede Vacante' is the Latin for 'Vacant See'.

Aidan.

 

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You beat me to this. I was wondering the same thing. I saw some of these coins in the Munich State Coin Museum, and I was wondering if there will be an issue now. I was thinking, though, that the Pope is replaced within a few weeks of his passing, so why would they bother issuing a vacant seat coin`? Or, how would they find the time?

I am still waiting for my 2004 2 euro coins, which I THINK I will be getting.

Also, the 2005 coin is already planned – I wonder if it is already struck or if they will be designing new dies and/or doing the vacant seat thing.

It is a sad event, but it will be interesting numismatically.

I do like the Pope’s picture on the euro coins – it was a good likeness.

 

Did they have a limit on the number of lira they could issue in the past, like the current limit on Euros?

It might be hard for them to find room in their annual cap to issue interregnum coins as well as those for the next Pope; but if they also had a limit in '78, they will probably follow precedent. Those would be potentially valuable as a very limited mintage of a historical issue.

 

Good question. My first guess is “no” since it was their own coinage, minted under their own authority. But, my second guess is “yes”, since it circulated at par with Italian coins.

So, we have one “no” and one “yes”. We need a tie-breaker.

I know with the euro they are linked into the EU agreements so there are strict limits. I also think that special commems (silver, gold) are not counted, since they are not legal tender in other countries in the EU (same for all EU silver/gold commems).

 

Make that two votes each way. I had exactly the same thoughts.

 

Nobody really knows (yet). Not even even dealers. But probably no coin set. They never did that before.


There's another interesting discussion in German coins forums: will 2005 coin sets showing John Paul II be sold to the public or melted? Will there be two 2005 coin sets?


They are allowed to mint Sede vacante coins worth 300.000 €.

 

Sede Vacante coins as issued by the Vatican City prior to the changeover to the Euro are usually of the silver 500 Lire denomination,but there were other values issued in the Sede Vacante period in 1939.

Aidan.

 

This is a very interesting question. If they have begun striking 2005 JP2 coins, then what will they do with them? If they claim they will destroy them, some will of course be saved, and they will be tremendous rarities. If they issue them to collectors, then there will be no allotment left for the new Pope’s coins.

 

Since the Vatican City State was established in 1929, every time a Pope died, there have been coins with the effigy of the "old" one or the "new" one, but never with both. So I assume that will be the same this year.

Now whether there will be a Sede Vacante 8-coin set or a commem, I don't know. A set would be against the recommendations of both the European Commission and the European Council but, well, a recommendation is not a law.

As for the mintage, in "normal" years the Vatican can issue coins with a maximum face value of €1 million. On special occasions, like a Sede Vacante year, the limit is €1.3 million.

By the way, the €2 commem planned for this year is dedicated to the World Youth Day in Cologne. The proposed design shows Cologne Cathedral, and not JP II, so that piece would not be affected.

Christian

 

But he wouldn't he have been on the front?

 

No, the €2 commems have the same obverse? reverse? errm, common side as the regular €2 coins. It is only the country specific sides that may vary.

So the World Youth Day coin would show the usual map and the face value on one side, while the other side will probably look like this:

http://www.2-euro.net/images/vat05.jpg

(This is a draft only, so there may be changes to the design.)

Christian

 

Oh, yeah. Of course you are right. I was being stupid for a moment. I guess I was thinking of the silver Vatican coins, where they have both sides to mess with. (But even those do not necessarily have him on one side). The regular coins of course only have one national side.

 

We've just learned that Rainier III of Monaco died as well, and thus, the circulating 1 and 2E coins will be changed sometime in the new year, unless they've yet to issue any Monaco coins this year.

 

That was old news to me, being in Europe, but I forgot that the US people might not have heard it yet.

Yup, more new euros, I guess.

 

Wonna take a look to see what may be heading towards collectors??

http://www.numismatikforum.de/download.php?id=4128

 

Same here If the actual Sede Vacante looked like this, it would be a neat design. By the way, more of Frizio's design ideas are here:
http://spazioinwind.libero.it/friziofrizio/index.html

Christian

 

Christian,in 1939,1958,1963,& 1978,there were coins of both the preceding Pope of Rome & his successor.There was only ever 1 coin of John Paul I,Pope of Rome - a silver 1,000 Lire.

Aidan.

 

Maybe so, but I don't actually know of any such coins. This is from a list that I posted to rcc the other day:

1939: Pius XII became Pope on 2 March -> only Pius XII coins that year.
1958: John XXIII became Pope on 28 October -> only Pius XII coins.
1963: Paul VI became Pope on 21 June -> only Paul VI coins.
1978: John Paul I became Pope on 26 August -> only Paul VI coins.
1978: John Paul II became Pope on 16 October -> only JP I coins*

(* actually just the 1000 lire coin that you mentioned. But in 1978 there were no JP II coins yet.)

While I do have several Vatican coins, I do not collect them systematically, so I could not tell from my own collection whether the above is correct. But the catalogs and web sites I know say so ...

http://www.inkoze.de/welt/pdf/vatikanstadt.pdf
(from the Schön catalog, in German)
http://www.ilmarengo.com/vaticano/welcome.html

Christian

 

If I understand correctly the Vatican was under restrictions by Italy prior to the euro and the EU when it came to total mintages each year. Coin World is currently running a series on Vatican coins with the first issue this week. Perhaps we will learn more there!