Gallienus wants YOU to help build the CT Zoo

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Fantastic tigress! It's hard to believe that anyone would think that's a panther.
     
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  3. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    @Bing, on second thought, it could be either a gazelle or an antelope, both of which have Diana in the reverse legend. If you can find any trace of the Officina number in the exergue, you can tell which it is: if it's a gamma (Officina 3), then it's an antelope. If it's an XI or XII, it's a gazelle.
     
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  4. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

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  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    From the wild but not the zoo:
    wolf
    rp1620bb1299.jpg

    lion
    rp1690b01803lg.JPG
     
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I looked in hand and under magnification. I may be seeing things, but I think I see a faint shadow of a "gamma". If that is correct then it would be antelope rather than gazelle. I just can't be certain.
     
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  7. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Of course, isn't a gazelle technically a kind of antelope in the first place? I'm not sure the Romans were aware of that, though!
     
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  8. singig

    singig Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure that the fourth coin in well identified ,
    I declared it as antelope but I don't see any antlers, if not should be a doe but is not looking backwards.

    RIC 574 , Siscia mint
    GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    LIBERO P CONS AVG, Panther walking left, B in ex.
    gal1.jpg

    RIC 179 left,X , Rome mint
    GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    DIANAE CONS AVG, Stag walking left, officina mark X below.
    gal2.jpg

    RIC 181 var Cunetio 1344, Rome mint, sole reign.
    GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    DIANAE CONS AVG, Antelope walking left. Mintmark: Gamma.
    gal3.jpg

    RIC 180,X,left
    IMP GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    DIANAE CONS AVG, antelope walking left. X in ex.
    gal4.jpg

    RIC 283 var A , Rome mint. Sole reign.
    GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right
    SOLI CONS AVG, Pegasus springing right. Officina letter A offset to right of exergue.
    gal5.jpg
     
  9. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    A Diana coin from Officina X has to be a stag, not an antelope. The antlers are simply worn away. The Diana antelope coins are from Officina 3.
     
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  10. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Thank you @DonnaML I've proved myself lazy on that one !

    Q
     
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Are you OK with Salonina zoo coins too?

    Obv:- CORN SALONINA AVG, diademed draped bust right on crescent
    Rev:- IVNONI CONS AVG, Bearded elk walking right
    Minted in Rome (Delta in exe). A.D. 267-268
    References:- RIC 14. Cohen 69

    [​IMG]
     
  12. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Other non zoo series animal coins

    Another wolf...
    [​IMG]

    A couple of stags
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    @Ryro - here's another Hippocamp for Neptune to add to the zoo a third example of this odd beast
    Gallienus Hippocamp.jpg
    Gallienus, Sole reign, 260-268 AD, Antoninianus, Rome mint. Struck 268 AD
    Obv: GALLIENVS AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust right
    Rev: NEPTVNO CONS AVG, hippocamp right; N
    Ref: RIC V 245; RSC 668
    Note: for more info - WEIGEL, R. (1990). Gallienus' 'Animal Series' Coins and Roman Religion. The Numismatic Chronicle (1966-), 150, 135-143. "The coins may have served to announce a major religious festival that both secured protection of the gods and gained popular support with circus games."
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I am NOT saying there were no tigers but the first one I saw struck me as a skinny panther with ribs showing. Those with well struck mint state coins see things differently than the rest of us. Were those lines intended to the stripes or just a convention to show a big cat? Opinions on where one animal starts and another ends in cats and hooved stock will vary and some dies suggest the cutter may not have been fully skilled in the ID of the animals. Panther is the obvious answer because of the legend linking Dionysos to his companion animal. Did Dionysos have a tiger, too. Ask him if you see him late some night. ;)
     
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  15. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    He DID! And this one is undoubtedly a tigress, not a skinny panther with ribs showing:

    Gallienus LIBERO P CONS AVG tiger closeup.jpg

    Gallienus LIBERO P CONS AVG tiger antoninianus.jpg
     
  16. singig

    singig Well-Known Member

    Thanks , I will replace my label.
    The error is on wildwinds , even the photo is showing a stag:
    RIC 180,X,left Gallienus Billon Antoninianus. IMP GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right / DIANAE CONS AVG, antelope walking left. X in ex. RSC 163.
    http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/gallienus/RIC_0180.jpg
     
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  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I think the Jim Phelps article on Forum (see http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Liber Pater), as well as several of the examples posted in this thread, are extremely persuasive in demonstrating that the "tigress" is, in fact, a tigress, and not simply a skinny panther with ribs showing. In fact, the animals with stripes tend to be considerably more robust, not less, than the ones without stripes, which would make no sense if the intent had been to portray ribs showing.

    There's an entirely separate question regarding the panther coins that are, in fact, panthers: what animal, exactly, did those coins intend to show? In the New World, in North America, "panther" is simply another synonym for a mountain lion / cougar / puma. Obviously not an animal the Romans knew! In South America, a "black panther" is simply a melanistic jaguar. Also an animal unknown to the Romans.

    In the Old World in ancient times, as I understand it, a "panther" was another word for a leopard, especially a melanistic leopard, i.e., a black panther. Perhaps that's what the "panther" coins intended to show? If they intended to show an ordinary leopard, why no spots? Ancient artists were clearly capable of portraying a leopard with spots reasonably accurately. See this portrayal from an ancient Greek red-figure bell krater showing Dionysus on the back of a "panther" with spots that's obviously a leopard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus#/media/File:Dionysos_panther_Louvre_K240.jpg.

    So perhaps the "panther" on Gallienus's zoo coins was a black panther, i.e., a melanistic leopard.
     
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  18. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    @Ryro, have you been keeping track of how many different animals from the list have been shown on this thread?

    Here's the list, supplemented with the name of the deity in the reverse legend, and the number of the Officina, to make the list more useful as a reference guide. I've boldfaced the ones that people have posted in this thread.

    [Lioness walking left [Apollo, Officina 2] [Forgot to put on my original list]]
    Centaur walking left holding globe [Apollo, Officinas 4, 7, & 8]
    Centaur walking right with bow and arrow [Apollo, Officinas 7 & 8]

    Centaur galloping right, with bow and arrow held up to sky [Apollo, Officina 7]
    Gryphon walking left [Apollo, Officinas 4 & 8]
    Gryphon walking right [Apollo, Officina 4]
    Gryphon seated left [Apollo, Officina 4]
    Antelope left [Diana, Officinas 3 & 4]
    Antelope right [Diana, Officina 3]
    Doe left, head turned back to right [Diana, Officina 5]
    Doe right, head turned back to left [Diana, Officina 5]
    Stag left [Diana, Officina 10]
    Stag right [Diana, Officina 10]
    Gazelle left [Diana, Officinas 11 & 12]
    Gazelle right [Diana, Officinas 11 & 12]

    Lion left [Hercules, Officina 1]
    Boar right [Hercules, Officina 5]
    Goat left [Jove, Officina 6]
    Goat right [Jove, Officinas 4 & 6]
    Panther left [Liber Pater, Officina 2]

    Panther right, "rampant" (head facing upwards) [Liber, Officina 2]
    [Tigress left] [Liber Pater, Officina 2]
    Criocampus [mythical beast with head and forelimbs of ram, and body and rear of fish] swimming right [Mercury, Officina 8]

    Hippocamp [head and forelimbs of horse, body and rear of fish] swimming left [Neptune, Officina 9]
    Hippocamp swimming right [Neptune, Officina 9]
    Capricorn [head and forelimbs of goat, body and rear of fish] swimming right [Neptune, Officina 6]
    Pegasus left, rearing up on hind legs [Sol, Officina 1]
    Pegasus right, rearing up on hind legs [Sol, Officina 1]
    Bull standing left [Sol, Officina 11]
    Bull standing right [Sol, Officina 11]
    Antelope left [Salonina obverse, Juno, Officina 4]
    Antelope right [Salonina obverse, Juno, Officina 4]


    So that's 32 different animal reverses, and we've had 21 shown in this thread (assuming I didn't miss any.) Way more than I expected!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  19. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    Bought this one just a few days ago. My first (and certainly not my last) ZOO coin.
    Love those fabulous animals. This is my hippocampus with the head and front legs of a horse but the winding tail of a fish or dolphin.
    Already on the list ;)

    F42F2A5A-6684-4B3F-A9A5-AD1DCCC6CF07.jpeg
     
  20. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Wonderful work! Thanks so much Donna:)
    I wad going to put together an excel sheet when I got back from my run, only to find you've taken care of business for us:woot:
    Great showing thus far team! Already over the half way mark.
    I better through some kindling on the fire.
    I hope I have the identification correct:nailbiting: If so, were are just 10 away from packing the CT zoo with all of em:D
    Screenshot_20200604-190756_PicCollage-removebg-preview.png
    Gallienus
    Ӕ Antoninianus. Rome, AD 253-268. GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right / DIANAE CONS AVG, antelope walking right, XI in exergue. RIC 179; C. 160; MIR 747b. 3.3g, 23mm, 6h.
    Ex: Tauler & Fau
     
  21. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    If that's an XI in the exergue, then it's a gazelle walking right and we already have it. Diana's antelope walking right would be from Officina 3. Sorry to disappoint you!

    In terms of the remaining animals, I don't think I've ever even seen one of the lion or lioness coins on the list.
     
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