Uh - Oh ..

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kolyan760, May 30, 2020.

  1. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    @kolyan760 - are you saying that the coin above (more so), and the coin in the OP, are suspect because of the clearly sanded edges to (presumably) hide the artefacts of casting?
     
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  3. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    im not saying anything - just showing facts, its your choice to make decisions from my pictures , just prove me that im wrong
     
  4. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    I'm not seeking to prove you wrong, just asking/confirming what the intent of the photos were.

    I think it would be helpful for discussion if you talked us through some of your thinking, so I was trying to draw out what the thinking was.

    In any event, I agree the sanded edges in both the OP and the post above are highly suspicious. Why sand, if not to hide something?
     
    kolyan760 likes this.
  5. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    if this is not enough evidence for you guys then i dont know who i can talk to
    IMG-9766.JPG
     
  6. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    sorry my english is limited
     
  7. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    thanks for support , its really frustrating when you buy this kind of crap with hard earn money IMG-9557.jpg
     
  8. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    IMG-9557 (1).jpg
     
  9. Lolli

    Lolli Active Member

    Sure that the Nerva must be fake?
    The blue cycle "BUBBLES" are corrosion pits and not circular holes from gas bubbles, that can be sometimes found on bad cast fakes.
    The coin has a massive corrosion problem.
    The edge crack was possibly filled a little bit with patina or dirt or encrustrations. The metall of the coin is reacting in its environment with chemicals and so the edge crack will react too with chemicals and will get there a patina that can fill the edge crack a little bit and make it looking less sharp. And often dirt or encrustrations are not removed from edge cracks, when cleaning. What you cycled black is not a filled edge crack it is either patina or encrustration or a die break in ancient dies. It looks like the coin was harshly cleaned and possibly smoothed on obverse and I guess it possibly had a thick and or ugly patina. Patina needn´t to grow everywhere on coin surface equally !! Edge cracks are supposed to go through both side (reverse and obverse)! You can see that the edge crack ends on obverse and reverse on the same position! There is no counterpart as it should be on obverse for what you think is a filled edge crack on reverse. The edge crack should go through both side and end on same position on both sides and if edge crack is actually filled you should see it on obverse and reverse and not only on reverse.
     
  10. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    @Lolli - agree re the flan crack (or let's face it, gaping hole). That could be due to many things.

    I have no comment on patina and bubbles, although I'd note I couldn't see evidence of casting bubbles in any event - only corrosion as you state.

    But... what about the sanding of the edges? Aggressive cleaning? If so, for what purpose? That's sanding, clear as day.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  11. Lolli

    Lolli Active Member

    I add some links to coins with rised lines (die breaks in ancient dies/matrixes will occur as rised lines with higher relief on coins). And on such rised lines from die/matrix breaks patina can grow and patina is not always growing everywhere equally and even. (As possible explanation for rised line which is cycled black on picture, but there can be of course many different explanations all I want to show is that such lines can occur on authentic coins, too and are not necessarily an evidence for a coin to be fake.

    Examples for die Breaks, showing that they will occur as rised lines:

    Through eye

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1495631

    Through head

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=351324

    AussieCollector "But... what about the sanding of the edges?"

    I have authentic sestertii, that have such "sanding" removed patina on 1 or two spost on edge too, not sure why they are there but my coins are 100% authentic with a 100% authentic patina and the patina pretty much everywhere intact on them.
    File marks on the whole edge to remove casting seam and sprue would be a serious problem.
    But on the Nerva the patina on the edge seems to be intact except on two spots and I can not see there file marks or traces of casting sprue edge.
    If you produce a cast fake you generally remove the seam and sprue first and then you apply an artificial patina.

    Imho it is not possible to do a reliable authentication based on this pictures, it could be authentic or fake so much better pictures would be required or an examination by one or better more REAL experts in hand.

    I am not sure if it is so good and fair to mention and attacking the seller although it is not proven that the coin is actually fake and even if the coin would be fake, everyone makes mistakes and the seller does not seem to sell knowing+intentionally fakes and even if the coin would be fake it would be a honest mistake and the seller is even offering a refund although it is not proven that the coin must be fake.
    I do not understand what the seller did wrong.

    And if a real expert like Curtis (working as expert for HJB) says that the coin looks ok for him, then I would at least overthink my opinion because the chance that Curtis is wrong is much lower than the chance, that you are wrong.

    "curtislclay" "Looks authentic to me, because of the sharpness of some of the details and of the pitting on the obverse."

    To accept only and appreciate opinions or arguments that support the own opinion is not good because then contrary opinions will be neglected although the other side is possibly right and has the better and more convincing arguments.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  12. goossen

    goossen Senior Member

    Just return the coin and get your money back.
    BAM! Problem solved.
    You don't need to prove anything.

    Bonus points if you don't buy from them again.
     
  13. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    0A79A24D-73B3-402F-8FBF-2F4C022E12EC.jpeg 4069B4E6-04D1-4C6F-9584-14028645B8A1.jpeg

    E8F690C2-F4C6-4A14-9090-956E8CCCD1A2.jpeg Little more from same seller
     
    Bing likes this.
  14. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    60E56E25-CEAD-4EB7-B455-C58A626DF7F1.jpeg 78C5DB52-7497-45D3-8C63-D84721D16233.jpeg 60E56E25-CEAD-4EB7-B455-C58A626DF7F1.jpeg 78C5DB52-7497-45D3-8C63-D84721D16233.jpeg 60E56E25-CEAD-4EB7-B455-C58A626DF7F1.jpeg 78C5DB52-7497-45D3-8C63-D84721D16233.jpeg 60E56E25-CEAD-4EB7-B455-C58A626DF7F1.jpeg 78C5DB52-7497-45D3-8C63-D84721D16233.jpeg 60E56E25-CEAD-4EB7-B455-C58A626DF7F1.jpeg 78C5DB52-7497-45D3-8C63-D84721D16233.jpeg
     
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  15. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

  16. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

  17. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    It looks like they all came from same “ engraver” and metal appearing to be the same on all of them
     
  18. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    It seems like you truly have an axe to grind here. If you weren't satisfied, then don't buy from then again, it's pretty simple.
     
    DonnaML and kolyan760 like this.
  19. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    Here is one more 94FEC0FF-7856-46BC-B253-62DA31C8615A.jpeg
     
    Bing likes this.
  20. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    Some people asked for more evidence.. here you go
     
  21. kolyan760

    kolyan760 Well-Known Member

    And here is one more just to nail it ( and no it doesn’t look tooled) 9F1C9EDF-26F0-48B8-8EEC-138526B5370C.jpeg
     
    Bing likes this.
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