The Romanticism of Ancient Coins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, May 23, 2020.

  1. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Yes, the last time I was in Rome, in 2017, in the middle of "El Diablo", the brutal heatwave that was hitting much of Europe and the UK, I saw knockoff dealer after knockoff dealer working in little street side kiosks near the Trevi Fountain. They were selling everything, from knockoffs of designer handbags to knockoffs of high end watches, along with a plethora of t-shirts. However, I got a pretty good deal at a nearby shop selling Italian leather goods, wallets mostly, that I gave to friends on my return.
     
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  3. eparch

    eparch Well-Known Member

    I have been collecting Roman Republican coins for over 40 years and have always found the massive early Aes appealing. I finally got an as a couple of years ago. Its better in hand than in this photo.
    upload_2020-5-25_9-33-53.png
    Anonymous Cast Æ As. Rome, circa 225-217 BC. Libral standard. Laureate head of bearded Janus; horizontal I (mark of value) below; all on a raised disk / Prow of galley right; I (mark of value) above; all on a raised disk. Crawford 35/1; HN Italy 337; ICC 74. 274.13g, 64mm, 12h
     
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  4. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Why would you want to test cut a bronze? Its not even that it's a silver or gold core!( A reverse fouree -joke). It's not even to cut the coin in half for smaller change. Just to mark it?
     
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  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Are you referring to eparch’s As? The I or mark of value is representing 1 or one As on the reverse. It does look like a test cut, but the I is raised.
     
  6. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    No! Ryro's 92 gm Monster Aes Grave.
     
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  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I am NO expert. At the time, Central Italia and Rome had no Silver nor Gold (or extremely little of it.) Precious metal for coins, trade, payment etc. was done in Aes (Bronze). Perhaps, there had been some concern that other metals, or even clay, etc. were substituted for the Aes. Our reference point for precious metals are not the same for the Italians at that time. Early Roman Armies were paid in Aes Rude, weighed out and given to the Soldiers.

    upload_2020-5-25_9-13-36.png
    Italia Aes Rude - bronze ca 5th-4th Century BCE 29.7mm 32.4g rough uncia

    @NewStyleKing , I know you are a researcher, so I only have a couple quick quotes I can give. The thing that impresses me most about Bronze in this area of the world, is that it is the ONLY true precious metal for these cultures, AND that it was useful to use in everyday objects. My thoughts.

    "Roman tradition recorded that pay of the army began during the siege of Veii in 406 BC and it appears that Aes rude was the currency well before this."
    - WIKIPEDIA

    "Bronze was, however, traded in central Italy long before it was a lawfully recognized official measure of value. Aes rude, rough lumpy bronze ingots with no marks or design, were used in trade and as a proto-currency, perhaps as early as the 8th century B.C. Production of aes rude was almost certainly private and unregulated. The metal in aes rude is mostly copper with roughly 5% tin (one analysis found 93.7% copper and 6.3% tin). There was some intended uniformity in weight based on the libra (Roman pound) weighing 328.9 g, and uncia (Roman ounce, 1/12 libra) weighing 27.4 g. But weights vary greatly with some exceeding twelve pounds and others under an ounce. Many smaller examples are fragments of broken larger specimens. A balance was certainly necessary to measure value for commercial transactions. Photos of aes rude can be seen above and also in the plates below."
    - NUMISWIKI
     
  8. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    If beauty be in the eye of the beholder then, I guess, we are all beholden to you for showing us your coin.
     
  9. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    I don't have the foggiest idea mice elf why the folks at Stacks & Bowers (where I purchased the doozy from) would put it as a test cut. I would assume it got dinged (though the placement does look intentional). So, I leave it on my description in hopes someone knows and will share what's going on.
    Ps, I made the same joke to my wife about it having silver inside!
     
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  10. Andrew McMenamin

    Andrew McMenamin Nerva You Mind

    Holy Moly - that's a beast! I agree with your sentiments regarding ancients. I love them - they transport me back to a critical time in the development of western civilization, and I often say to myself - "I wonder who held this coin?" I just wish I had started collecting them earlier in life. Great post - thanks!
     
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  11. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    In more modern times, Sweden issued plate money.

    Here's one example, a 1/2 dalder plate money from 1727. It sold for $1,300 (+ buyer's fee), at the Sedwick Auction #14. The plate money seems to always command high prices at auction.

    I've never owned an example, and I wonder how NGC or PCGS would slab such a monster!

    It weighs 365 grams, and is from a salvage, so there has been some weight loss. Actually I think this is one of the smaller examples.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a link that discusses Swedish plate money.

    http://swedishcoppers.com/PlateMoney.html
     
  12. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I've seen several examples of Swedish plate money online. I would love to see one in person to really be able to gauge the size.
    I imagine that the NGC/PCGS slab would be massive, but I bet they would do it if asked. They will slap anything lol.
     
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  13. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    To me these massive, tangible pieces of history represent what was perhaps the most critical period of Rome's history. It was a make or break time when Rome overcame the first Punic war, only to have to face the scourge of Hannibal in the second. The heftiness and weight of these pieces seem to stand as a metaphor for Rome herself. Such is the romanticism and attraction of ancient coins.
    below are several asses and other examples ...semis, triens 3g3BmwC6yF4e99pTc7SAJr68w2EL5t.jpg 161.jpg image00017.jpg

    1059755l.jpg 91000809.jpg lot-5496119-O.jpg
     
  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    On a prophecy sought as a young man, from Sibyl (a prophet), regarding Rome’s fate as well as his own, Claudius had this to say regarding the outcome of the Punic Wars:

    “Gradually, her face changed, the prophetic power overcame her, she struggled and gasped, and there was a rushing noise through all the galleries, doors banged, wings swished my face, the light vanished, and she uttered a Greek verse in the voice of God:

    ‘Who groans beneath the Punic Curse
    And strangles in the strings of purse,
    Before she mends must sicken worse,

    Her living mouth shall breed blue flies,
    And maggots creep about her eyes,
    No man shall mark the day she dies’

    “By the Punic Curse the Sibyl was referring plainly enough to the destruction of Carthage by us Romans. We have long been under a divine curse because of that. We swore friendship and protection to Carthage in the name of our principal gods, Apollo included, and then, jealous of her quick recovery from the disasters of the Second Punic War, we tricked her into fighting the Third Punic War and utterly destroyed her, massacring her inhabitants and sowing her fields with salt. ‘The strings of the purse’ are the chief instruments of this curse – a money-madness that has choked Rome ever since she destroyed her chief trade rival and made herself mistress of all the riches of the Mediterranean. With riches came sloth, greed, cruelty, dishonesty, cowardice, effeminacy, and every other un-Roman vice.”

    From I Claudius
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nailed it. Comments and Coins!
     
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