New to ancient coins and looking for tips

Of the group the Probus is the only one I would recommend for the reasons mentioned above. It seems quite a nice example of something we discussed here on CT a while back.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/spacefiller-saturninus.312705/
It has wonderful examples of the Antioch IVI style M which distinguishes it from the newly recognized mint discussed in that link (first coin below).


This is my Antioch coin. By chance they are both workshop H but not the same die.

 

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I love reading well-informed reviews of books about coins, and I've read all of yours, and those at augustuscoins, before -- and was looking through them again this afternoon! I find it interesting that even though the Vagi and Van Meter books have both been around for 20 years or so, they still haven't penetrated the market enough for individual dealers or collectors or auction sites to include references to them in their coin descriptions. It seems to me that for Roman Imperial coins, the most common catalog references are still to RIC, followed by the volumes of Sear's RCV and, for silver coins, RSC. Occasionally one sees the BMCRE reference number. But I don't think I've ever seen a reference to a coin's Vagi or Van Meter numbers, and ERIC II references are rare.

For Roman Republican coins, of course, it's almost always Crawford, RSC I and Sear's RCV I. To show how bound by tradition people are, one still often sees the Sydenham numbers, even though that book has been out of date for almost 50 years now.

 

Vagi is a wonderful reference to learn about Roman coins and Roman history in general, but it is NOT a comprehensive list of types. It is a general price guide with a few interesting reverse types singled out for special consideration. It is not specific enough to distinguish most coins from one another. It lists only 5 denarii of Trajan, for example. A generic price for those with a right-facing bust, a generic price for those with a left-facing bust, a listing for the DANVVIVS reverse type, a listing for the SPQR OPTIMO PRINCIPI with Trajan's column reverse type, and the VIA TRAIANA reverse. That's it. That's why it's not used in collector's or dealer's descriptions. All of my Trajan denarii -- and I have about a dozen different ones -- would be Vagi 1233.

 

I really liked David Vagi's books but he made one decision that hurt sales. Rather than listing a few of the most commonly encountered types, he listed a few premium types and then a generic listing for 'others' which turned off people who wanted a number for their coin rather than just some other coin. Using the Trajan example RC mentioned all of my Trajan denarii would be Vagi 1233 also except this one which got its own number 1237 as one of the four special types and a value boost of 3x or so. Trajan has many other neat types that might outrank "someone standing there" but Mr. Vagi chose to spend many column inches listing coins of the Trajan Restoration series instead of coin most people will actually see. I have not met David Vagi but had he been a friend back then I would have asked him to rethink this. Certainly a 'complete' listing would have made the book huge and expensive. Authors walk a fine line between too much and too little. When issued, I considered the Vagi prices reasonably close but today they are a mite low. He gives a 'fine' Trajan Via like the one below $50-75. I paid $120 in 2014. I might have paid too much but I wanted the 'special' type.
Trajan denarius VIA TRAIANA


The History volume of the Vagi set will prepare the reader to win any trivia contest of Roman Imperial times. Unfortunately the current fad of education no longer require even the teachers to know details about the emperors as was the fashion in the last century. He does not have chapters on what it was like to be a slave or as woman or any of the current material on social history that replaced names and dates as 'history' for education. For coin collectors, the old way is better and the Vagi chapters are great. How may of you can name the emperors and say something pertinent about each one? Did you learn that in college?
I MUST mention that David Vagi will always hold a special place in my heart and library for being smart enough to include the Anonymous Pagan coins which RIC omitted in error and people who write books by copying RIC failed to note as well. There are only two common ones (below) but he lists a few of the rare ones as well. The only better listing of these is in Failmezger whom I bullied into including my coins far in excess of what he would have felt necessary.


Van Meter was once IMHO a must have book for beginners (when it was in print) but new ones today are expensive and many used ones are falling apart due to cheap binding. Both Vagi and VanMeter chose to invent a new numbering system and omit proper cross referencing to old standards (copyright problems?). Vagi was well made and used ones should be intact. Van Meter - not so much.

 

That Probus is a solid piece, I'm quite new to Ancients but I could tell you that I have one very similar and I would recommend that Probus to a beginner like you or I.

 

That first one just took my breath away. Amazing.

 

I would never force my collecting philosophy on someone but I learned that personally I prefer quality over quantity.

When you’re starting out it’s easy to want to buy buy buy and accumulate a certain level of coins to feel like you have a collection. I would just suggest taking your time and buying the best you can reasonably afford. That way in a few years when you’re viewing your first purchases through the lens of a more experienced collector you may still be happy with the original purchases.

That may be as simple as buying one $25 coin instead of five $5 coins, with the scale based on your own budget. Just something to think about.

 

I don’t disagree with that philosophy, but for me, I really aim to get “good value” for whatever piece I’m buying. I plan on collecting for many years (god willing) and I’m ok with having a big collection that includes coins of lesser quality (as long as I didn’t overpay for them).

History has been a lifelong passion and it was one of my majors in college. So if there is a coin that relates to a specific chapter in history that interests me, and the value of the coin is good for its quality, that is all that really matters to me.

I’m also starting a new career as a History teacher, so If I find myself wanting to get rid of my cheaper coins, I will likely just give them away to students. Something like “whoever gets the best grade on the final, gets this authentic ancient Roman coin”.

So for example, if we look at the coin with Constantius II and the Galley on the reverse side. It is not a high quality coin by any means, but it’s a chapter of history I find fascinating. Constantine the great leaves behind 3 sons and it can be argued that two of them, were totally incompetent. Constantius II, winds up becoming sole ruler of the empire and has some decent military success. I also actually appreciate the desert patina (and wanted to have at least one coin with it) and I really like the galley.

This coin was only about ten bucks, so in my opinion, it was good value. But to more experienced collectors who might have better coins that check the same boxes, it might just seem like a waste of energy and ten bucks.

But you make a great point about wanting to “buy, buy, buy” as a newbie. I have never been the most patient person when something gets me excited, and I do yearn to feel like an “actual collector”.

 

Absolutely, value shopping and bang for your buck is part of the fun. Keep an eye out for local coins shows, too. Even if there’s only one ancients dealer in attendance it’s worth going because you’ll meet others with similar interests and likely find better even deals than the internet.

 

In truth, the most 'bang for the buck' may well be from $10 coins. They often show enough detail to be fully identifiable and convey the history of their period if not the artistic merits of their makers. The problem comes when we fail to separate the interesting and educational coins from just another piece of metal that teaches us nothing and bores us almost as soon as we own it. Coins in this bracket and possibly many several times that have to be thought of as food for our collecting souls much like what we got from yesterday's lunch. It was good for us but it will not provide return that will feed us tomorrow.

I have recently been selling and giving away many coins that helped provide my educational nourishment over the past several decades. The cash return of coins sold has averaged low enough that I felt more enjoyment from the ones given away to people who, I hope, can learn from them as I did. At least most of them say, "Thanks", rather than, "You were really stupid buying that in 1990." As you progress in the hobby/study your feelings for what is worthwhile and what you believe will provide the most 'bang for the buck' will change. I love coins but I hate boring coins that say nothing to me except, "You can sell me for a profit." I hope you will join in the discussions on other threads on this site and share that part of you that makes you a history teacher. The idea “buy, buy, buy” is tempting but "buy, learn, share" is more nourishing.

 

Welcome to the dark side!

I'll echo that Savoca is a good place for bargains, although it is important to note that most European auctions charge $20-30 minimum for shipping, so it really doesn't make sense to buy an individual, low cost coin. If you are sticking to common bronzes eBay is mostly safe and is often the best way to go.

A few pieces of advice:

1) Remember that there is a LOT more to ancient coins than Roman and Greek. I strongly suggest that every new collector dabble a bit to see what "sticks" - five years ago I never would have guessed that I would today own one of the largest and most complete assemblages of Indo-Sassanian coins in private hands.

2) Once you start to feel the pull, take a break and research, research, research. Define parameters, set goals, look up what sells for how much, and how often it comes to market. I can't speak for you, but most people who just buy a little of this and that without at least one serious numismatic project stray and lose interest in the hobby eventually.

For late Roman bronzes, $20-30 is the sweet spot for me. None of these coins cost me more than $35 individually:

 

Well, Doug, before stopping by on this board this winter, my collecting flame was blue and dying. It has been very inspiring to find a living community like this again. So I proceeded to sell the uniteresting part of my collection, setting free capital to go out and buy those coins that used to be such an inspiration: Cheap, unidentified bronze coins. That has gotten me back on track with numismatics. I have to thank the good people at cointalk for that.

 

My love of Roman and Greek History (especially Roman) is what got me into collecting coins. So while you make good points about coins from other civilizations, I don’t see my collecting moving away from these two areas until I have built up a nice collection.

I am actually interested in artifacts of all kinds, but I find coins to be the most interesting and readily available artifacts to collect. I actually saw a very cool thread on Roman Sling bullets last night, and I would love to branch out to items like that as well.

I do have somewhat of a “project” in mind. I have a list of favorite emperors that I want to have a coin from, as a starting point. But I’m not rushing to get just any coins that are connected to them.

Once I get a nice quality coin for each of my targeted emperors, I would like to check off as many other emperors as possible. And of course, some emperors would be more sought after than others.

Outside of Imperial Rome, the rise of the Athenian empire is another chapter of history I am very interested in. Figures like Cimon and Aristides, facing off against Themistocles and Pericles. There is so much to collect within my main interests, that I don’t see myself shifting to other civilizations anytime soon.

That being said, Egyptian and Celtic coins would probably be the first types I look at, outside of Rome/ Greece. Egypt is just another fascinating/ major empire that I have always had some interest in. Celtic would be more in connection to my half-Scottish background (the other half of my family is Italian, so I already have that covered with Rome).

 

Also, thank you for sharing pictures of your coins!! They are really nice.

 

Try some of the coins of Roman Egypt. They often have unusual reverse types, either of the gods or other figures. Here's one that shows Hadrian giving his hand to be kissed by the personification of Alexandria on his journey to Egypt. Cost around $50 as I recall.

The coin is quite historical and commemorates Hadrian’s arrival in Egypt in the year 130-131.




Hadrian. 117-138 AD.

Æ Drachm, 36mm, 22.1g, 11h; Alexandria, Year 15 = 130/1 AD.

Obverse: AVT KAI - TRAI AΔPIA CEB; Bust laureate, draped, cuirassed right.

Reverse: Alexandria kisses the hand of the arriving emperor; he is laureate and togate, stands left, extends right hand to Alexandria and holds scepter in left; she stands right wearing elephant skin headdress, guides the emperor's hand to her mouth with her right hand, and holds two wheat ears downwards with her left hand; in lower field L - IE.

Reference: Cologne 1034; Emmett 964/15.

Here is an article I wrote on the topic...
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-personification-of-alexandria.357562/#post-4298612

 

You are starting as I did with Roman and Greek but much later I started getting interested in other, especially the ones that had contact with Rome (mostly ememies). I found early on the Greek silver tended to be above my price range and the Greek bronzes were small and not as interesting. There are many exceptions. Still my favorite Greek coins were from Greek cities in other places (Italy, Sicily). I very much approve of getting the emperors on your favorites list but I am not a fan of the one-per-emperor style since many of the lesser ones are not all that significant in history and cost more that the best and most interesting coins of the common and historically significant ones. I started with a special interest in Septimius Severus which made me want Pescennius Niger but most of my favorites are common rulers who issued interesting types. I do suggest you not buy just any old Trajan, for example, but look for something that says something about the man or his rule. He fought wars in Dacia so why not get a reverse with some Dacian connection:
Dacian Captive on pile of shields

 

@ancient coin hunter @dougsmit

Wow, two beautiful pieces. Both Emperors are also on my favorites list (but then again, they are on most people's). The reaction I have looking at these coins is immediate, I immediately look at them and think "wow, that would be a great piece to add to my collection" and that is one of the measures I take into account when buying coins.

I either have this immediate draw to it and know I like it or I don't. If I have to think about it, I pass. That has been part of my strategy so far, as someone who still has a ton to learn.

Regarding the one coin per emperor idea, I think it would be rather cool to have one coin from every emperor (plus I only turned 27 a couple of months ago, so it would give me a decades long project to work on). However, I am not going to force purchases of coins I don't particularly like, or coins that I don't think are selling for a good value, just to check names off the list. That would defeat the purpose of collecting things I truly enjoy looking at, and that I can hold in my hand to feel a connection to history.

 

I totally agree. I’ve been working on it for 17 years, and it will be a continuous project as long as I collect coins.
Eventually, you will get to a point where you have to choose between a rather unattractive coin by a totally insignificant usurper, and five great tetradrachms or an aureus or similar.

The great thing about this being your hobby, is that you can define it absolutely the way you want. You owe it to no one to get that emperor set complete. It probably won’t be!

 

@svessien 100 %, I have a whole lot to learn about coins, but my specific interests are pretty well defined. They certainly might change through out the years, especially as I learn/ collect more.

As the set becomes more complete, i'm sure it gets harder not to obsess over those remaining emperors. But just because I already have a coin from a certain emperor, doesn't mean I would be opposed to buying another if the value was right. Especially for my favorites.

 

You are wise beyond what is expected from new people.

So is svessien:

Do all you can do to fight the urge to buy any coin you don't like. They rarely grow on you but 'What was I thinking?' thoughts are common. BTW, the 'complete' set of anything is more a matter of your definition of complete than it is of how many coins you have. If you tell yourself your collection does not require that coin, you are right by definition. I have known people who only wanted one coin per year so the guys that lasted a few months were quite optional. Right now, I can't even tell you which emperors I lack without thinking about it. Can you name 'all' the Emperors? Does your list include Silbannicus and Domitian II?