CNG revealing all proxy bids

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Andrew McCabe, May 13, 2020.

  1. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    I wish I could like that quote twice.
     
    Nicholas Molinari and Restitutor like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    I was just about to post something very similar to this.

    The auction house is, quite literally, extending credit to its bidders. Even if you're willing to place a deposit with them or in some sort of escrow account, you still may want to bid amounts in excess of your deposit.

    The worst outcome for an auction is that the buyer reneges on his/her high bid. While there is no way to completely guard against this outcome, the auction house will quite reasonably try to minimize this possibility, and the primary way to minimize it is to deal with known bidders who have a history of paying their winning bids.
     
  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Steve, this has not been unusual for me over the years. Most of the decent Auctions requested this info over the years when I applied to a new a Auction house. No big deal for me. I generally like using CC’s for everything. I can easily rescind a sale if things go south ( never have had that with Ancients), acquire points, and since I travel a lot, My CC’s seem to get Shanghaied at least once a year. So, I am issued new card numbers. Easy way to control transactions, as it is up to me to give the NEW CC to put on file. When I win an Auction, they usually ask how I want to pay, and I use the options that I want.
    My thoughts... I like to control my options.
     
    Volodya and PlanoSteve like this.
  5. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    Thanks, & I agree, I would like to post a CC which is how I actually do most of my transactions...I have a special one expressly for this purpose. Now I admit, I don't ever remember doing business with an "auction house", but I have directly with many dealers. Well, I don't need CNG anyway. :D;)
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Life is Choices. I try never to let it dictate to me. :)

    Freedom has always been my primary motivator.
     
    PlanoSteve likes this.
  7. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    I also greatly prefer paying with CCs.

    57947356-719A-43C8-867D-AE0085D379AF.jpeg

    (Sorry about that.... Off topic, modern coin and all...)

    Ok, back on topic: We don’t like the new ways of CNG and billionaires buying all the coins, that pretty much sums it up?
     
    dlhill132, octavius, TheRed and 2 others like this.
  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    You are welcome to pay me in CC’s...one dollar for each dollar...
    :)
     
    octavius, DonnaML and svessien like this.
  9. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    When I'm in charge, all the billionaires' ancient coin collections will be confiscated and redistributed among the masses of ancient coin collectors, specifically those who post here. That's the kind of redistribution of wealth I can approve of!
     
  10. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Donna for President! Coins and Circus for the masses!
     
  11. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    I propose that Donna head a new organization of which I will gladly join: The Confederacy of Coin Collecting Proles. We can be known as the CCCP for short. With those catchy initials I think we will become very popular.

    A Chilean billionaire, how interesting. I think the only person it could be is Francisco d'Anconia! I'm not too worried about him dominating the coin market. Any day now he will retire to a secluded valley in Colorado.

    To paraphrase Thucydides: the rich win the auctions they want and the common collectors suffer what they must.
     
    svessien and DonnaML like this.
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I find it hard to believe that anyone has collected ancients since the 1950's and not know Victor England. CNG and before that CNA and lists with his name were major sources for me starting with their third sale. Simply saying who you have been buying from is hardly an invasion.
     
    octavius, Volodya and Valentinian like this.
  13. Volodya

    Volodya Junior Member

    Obviously you're free to choose who to patronize, but asking for references is completely normal.

    Phil Davis
     
  14. Nap

    Nap Well-Known Member

    Did CNG:
    1) Announce the pre-sale high "book" bid before that number was reached?

    or

    2) Announce the book bid was maxed when the live bid matched it?

    I only watched the British section. From what I can tell, it looked like it was the latter. In that case, nothing wrong here, auction house generally takes the book bid ahead of the live bid and tells the live bidder they'll have to beat it.

    Perhaps the wording could have been different, rather than saying "the maximum book bid is already at $500" once a live bid of $500 came in, perhaps it would have been better to say "The bid is $500 already" and just ask for the next bid. Still other than the syntax of it, I don't see anything wrong here, but please correct me if I'm mistaken.
     
  15. Volodya

    Volodya Junior Member

    Wow, that seems far more invasive to me! That might be a deal-killer if I ever ran into it; I won't use PayPal and would be loathe to leave a deposit unless a collection of truly overwhelming importance was being offered. To each his/her own I guess.
     
  16. Nap

    Nap Well-Known Member

    Also agree that asking for references is standard for high value auctions.
     
    Roman Collector and DonnaML like this.
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    In the space of five pages his thread has progressed from what seemed like a violation of propriety to a necessary action. If all that was happening here was a live bidder matching the book bid, the auctioneer would have to tell that live bidder that he was not in the lead because the book posted that identical bid first but, since the book did not allow an advance, he would have to ask if there was one more bid. Before hammering, the auctioneer would have to ask if there were any other bids since it is possible that the book bidder or his agent (or a third bidder for that matter) could raise by bidding over that book clearing bid.

    The first post sounded very bad. Now, with full details, it seems nothing is unusual and certainly not inappropriate here.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  18. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Yes. I got the impression originally that the auctioneer was saying what he said when the live bidder had bid considerably less than the book bid. Say, in your example, $1,500. But now it's being disputed that that's what happened.
     
  19. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    I followed the auction nearly the entire time, I can 100% confirm the auctioneer only mentioned the book amount when it was the high bid. I know because I was bidding on a coin and got up to $2,000, it seemed like I had it as no other bid came in afterwards, and then and only then did the auctioneer say “we need 1 more bid to clear the book” at which point the auctioneer asked if my paddle # would like to put in another bid. I declined, and that’s all that occurred. The only comment I would make is I felt the auctioneer definitely tried to persuade people to clear the book more than just asking if there were anymore bids in a bookless bidding situation but that’s another topic.
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  20. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member


    I find this practice of announcing the maximum book bid during a live auction reprehensible and unethical. I've attended both floor auctions, going back to the 1980's and online auctions, and I have never witnessed ploy to squeeze more bids at the expense of the pre-auction bidders, especially those who do not attend the live event, making them mere pawns in the whole sordid process. This is manipulation by any other name.

    I don't think Victor England would have ever condoned such a practice.
     
  21. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    Mind you, the majority of the Greek section of the NAC esale was prepared with the Chilean billionaire in mind...What I don't understand is why don't they just offer the coins to him via a private sale instead of bothering the rest of us...
     
    Cucumbor and svessien like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page