Chopmarked 1875-S Trade Dollar

This has been cleaned, but still has some lovely details and chopmarks. The fineness checked out on an induction tester, but I understand that these are often counterfeited on planchets of the right composition. Are there any red flags that jump out at you?

 

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@ksparrow is the one to ask

 

Something odd going on with the mintmark as well. There is an S/CC variety listed in the Cherrypicker's guide, but it doesn't look like this. This seems like an S/S or doubling.

 

I don’t know if it is your photo of the reverse, but the position of the eagle doesn’t look right to me. Better photos, please.

 

The fields look like Swiss cheese and the uneven wear (particularly on the observe) are suspect. Given the high rate of counterfeiting, I would never buy a raw Trade Dollar.

 

Yes, that is definitely a counterfeit.

 

Sure. Are there any particular design elements you'd like to see under magnification?

 

Yep. This is the first one I bought raw & the only reason I got it is the low placeholder bid I placed won. Debating returning it for my money back if I can point to any particular evidence that it is not right.

 

Could you elaborate, please? [As mentioned above, I'm looking for a definitive indicator before asking for my money back]

 

The apparent graininess of the fields is the first thing I notice. Cast counterfeit?
It is interesting how the bulges opposite the chops are worn down ( like it did circulate?).

 

Nope—those pictures told it all. The graininess of the fields on the reverse is a dead giveaway. Definitely counterfeit. Trade dollars should only be bought certified, unless you’re a total expert with that series. It is the most counterfeited coin.

 

Besides the graininess, the wear is all off. Some parts of the coin look AU, other parts F.

 

- graininess
- dentils
- fuzziness of details
- design elements mushy
- chopmarks with no flattened area on the counterside
- chopmarks which have not disturbed the metal

 

I ended up having to make a police report to get my money back. Local police are asking me to obtain the written opinion of a third party expert to process the case as fraud. Anyone feel up to exploring how enforcement mechanisms work on a case like this?

 

I'm not sure any of the people who've responded to this thread qualify as experts (I think they probably mean a profession/dealer/certifier.)

You might ask @TypeCoin971793 or @messydesk to write a brief letter of un-authenticity, as they are recognized experts.

 

Jason, and others, have pretty well summed up the litany of problems with this coin. What struck me right off the bat were the rounded letters/numbers, malformed dentils, and odd grainy surfaces. I bet the edge reeding is bad. If you haven't done so already, post some images on the fake TD thread, please.

 

I think it's a transfer die copy of a chopmarked TD; that's why the chops don't look sharp or look raw in the interior.

 

I agree with this. The central chop mark on the reverse set me on edge right away, as it looks struck with the coin and not applied later.

Graininess, soft denticles and lettering, as mentioned earlier, are other red flags.

 

This is the first this I saw, and it gave me a bad gut feeling. Now, I have seen coins that were so harshly cleaned with a metal brush/wool that the cuts on the surface gave it a grainy appearance. That is also something I sensed in my gut reaction. Without seeing it in hand, I will call the graininess inconclusive.

However, I would say that, authentic or not, it isn’t a coin you want.

What about them? On high-grade specimens, they are neat and tidy rectangles, but as the coin wears down the ends of the rectangles spread out into a mushroom shape. That’s consistent with what I see on the OP’s coin.

The fuzziness appears to be in the fields while the devices look polished smooth. That’s the opposite of what I would expect to see on modern Chinese counterfeits, though the older cast counterfeits had a markedly different appearance. I haven’t handled enough cast counterfeits recently to generalize in this regard.

Do you have a weight or know the metallic composition @GeorgeM ? That will help a lot. If the mass is off by more than a Half gram, it is a definite counterfeit. If the metal isn’t 90% silver, it is a definite counterfeit.

I will touch on this more below. Are you referring to random areas of lacking details?

The eagle’s feathers look just as crisp as on genuine coins.

This is the first thing I look for in chopmarked trade dollars. The flattened area usually has a rough texture, and the design elements are significantly weakened. I see this for the majority of chopmarks on this coin.

I see disturbed metal for most of the chopmarks. Even on the counterfeits, the chopmarks are hand-punched. I have yet to see a fake in which the chopmarks were a feature on the die.

So what is my conclusion overall? I don’t have a firm one. I don’t like it, but I can’t 100% condemn it. I would recommend that in the future you should avoid coins like this in the future. Even if declared genuine, you will always look at it and think “could it be fake?”

I thank you for the really high praise, but I don’t know if I quite count as a recognized expert.

As for the letter of un-authenticity, sorry. :/ I can’t in good faith write one without being 100% sure. Answering the questions above will help me make a conclusion.