Right on! Everything you said is exactly what I've been saying. It looks like it's you and me against the world. To everyone else, I'm not advocating that you stop getting coins slabbed; I was simply curious as to why you thought you should. So far I haven't heard a single valid and logical reason why a TPG slab is any better than my own holders.
With silver at $9.86, $3 is about all it is worth. You need to rememeber that these coins are as common as dirt. And unless they grade high or have exceptional toning few even want them. Then take into account that a dealer's buy price and sell price are often spearated by up to 40% and the reason the offer was $3 becomes evident - melt value.
Only reason that really matters - because it makes them easier to sell for a fair price. Not an opinion, just a fact.
I would like to state that I don't think most coins under $100 need to be slabbed. However, when you get above $100 and especially over $500 per coin, I absolutely think slabbing is necessary. I also agree completely with Doug, I have bought thousands of dollars of coins over the years, and have only submitted maybe 20 or so for grading. It is very easy to obtain any coin you want already slabbed and I see no reason to submit coins yourself, unless the raw coin is already in you collection. The premise that slabbing is not needed due to inconsistency however is very much flawed. I think that most collectors and dealers are way too critical of the PCGS and NGC when it comes to their consistency. We can all find a coin if we search hard enough that we think is overgraded. However, we forget about the hundreds, maybe thousands of coins that we saw that were properly graded during our search. IMO, the TPG's are very consistent with regards to grade and even more consistent with regards to authentication. In addition, authentication is guaranteed, so if you do happen to get a slabbed counterfiet, the TPG owes you. The slab might not completely protect the coin from the atmosphere, but it does provide a measure of protection that is higher than a raw coin. I don't want to get into the inheritance debate, but I would like to ask a question. What should someone like me do in this regard. My coins are slabbed, but they are rainbow toned and were purchased and are worth multiples of the list price. How would I protect my hiers from getting completely ripped off? PS, Desert, how do I get in that poker game.
I apologize, I guess I just took you wrong, I thought when you said someone who doesnt slab (use a TPG) valuable coins was a 'pain' and 'doesnt care about his family', then when you said that even if you are a 'selfish collector who doesn't give a hoot about anyone else but me me me' slabs are still worth it because of point A, B, and C... I thought you were still referring, in general, to people who do not slab. But you are right, if a person leaves value coins laying around in a pile, in a box, well...its a shame the guy was collecting such valuable coins and treating them that way. I would think the lions share of collectors of valuable coins do not keep their coins loose in a box. They attribute the coins and estimate a grade and probably value based on estimate of grade and price at least in the year they bought it. Like said before, a 'snap shot'... Most collectors with valuable collections will have this information I would think and the 'I was left a fortunes worth of coins in a box...what are they!!' is rather rare. I am not sure if the slab=a fair price or a higher price...If a person buys a coin around retail or even at wholesale...slabs it and intends to sell it, they are not going to sell it for less than it took them to buy the coin and the cost of the slab, then a profit for them....period...thus prices will go up for every slabbed coin slabbed this way.
If this is a serious question, treat them like most people treat their children - get a god-parent (per se) for them. Specify a trusted friend, respected dealer to handle the sales or buy them. I am sure some mutually agreeable arrangement could be worked out with someone.
Yes it is a serious question. I was thinking about making an arrangement with a dealer that specializes in selling rainbow toned coins and then stating in my will that the coins should be auctioned through that dealer.
Your collection presents a somewhat unique problem. That problem is that just because you think your coins are worth multiples of the list price - that does not mean that anybody else thinks the same. Yes, there are others out like you out there Lehigh, but very few. And quite honestly, this fascination with toned coins by a few collectors willing to pay outrageous prices for toned coins has only existed for the past few years. Now because of that, I personally don't think it will continue to exist that much longer. Yes, I could be wrong, but history says otherwise. And before someone else brings it up, yes there have been lovers of toned coins for nearly as long as collectors have existed. However, those collectors were not willing to pay outrageous premiums for their coins. Yes they would pay a premium, but seldom if ever would they pay even 2x list. Never in their wildest dreams would they more than that. So, what I would expect to happen is that long before you ever have to worry about what your heirs might do, the prices for the coins in your collection will come back to reality. And you my friend will take a very nasty bath.
As my Grandfather used to say about his stocks, "You only lose money if your selling them and I'm not selling them but collecting dividends". He likes the coins and that is his dividend. As a collection he might do better at retaining their monetary value as well. The "collection" might have unique value.. Ruben
i thought the Booker T was one of the more popular ones, particularly since it was the first coin with a Black mans face on it. Ruben
The coin was minted for 6 years. They are extremely common. Yes, some dates/mints are less common than others, but they are not really popular. In fact, all of the early commems have languished in the price doldrums for decades.
As I have said for forever - collect because you like them, not because you expect to make a profit. There is no better reason to collect coins.
Well, in fairness Doug, I wouldn't be the one taking the bath since I have no intention of selling my toned treasures. And if I was forced to sell them, the pain of losing the coins would be equally as devastating as the loss of money. Additionally, I don't think the coins are worth multiples of bid price, that is a fact of the marketplace at this point in time. A fact that has not changed in at least the last 5-10 years. I am not predicting that the market for toned coins won't change for the worse in the future. All I am saying is that if I died today, my heirs would get ripped off. FWIW, only a small percentage of my collection is made up of coins purchased at 5X+ bid price. Most of my toned coins were purchased at a much more reasonable premium.
I just want to say something .I have experience many timse going to a dealer an trying to sell raw coins.and trying to get the right price for what i thought the grade should be. I think that's one good reason to get coins slabed to protect your self ,that is one of the main reasons that some collectors do it ,also selling them anywhere else for that matter. We do it for the grading and to preserve the coin of course , but to me the main reason is covering yourself. Certified Jazzcoins Joe Jazzcoins Joe
Lehigh I understand your reasoning for your collection, you and I have discussed this before. And as I have said in this thread, there is no better reason. But toned coins only began to become popular to the point where people would pay any premium in 2003. Prior to that, the rage for coins, again at the time as you say, was blast white. Go visit the PCGS and NGC forums, blast white coins will be what you find in the posts of 2001 & 2002. Yes you will find some posts where the more advanced and respected members post pics of their original skinned and toned coins. And you will find that those posts are the ones that explain the reasoning for owning coins with original skin. Only then did the people who frequent the forums even become aware of this. And it took several years of these posts before the popularity took hold and the fad of owning blast white coins began to fade. Even today you will find many collectors who want nothing else but blast white dipped coins. They hold to the illusion that blast white indicates originality, when nothing could be further from the truth. So yes, the popularity of toned coins and the willingness of some to pay premiums for them is a fact today. But it has only been a fact for a few short years. And as I said previously, as history tells us, that will likely change.
Yeah, in poker terms, I think I am a 3 to 1 dog that toned coins will lose some of there present value. I don't mind though, I'm not selling them. As long as the popularity of poker doesn't tank along with the toned coin market, I should be fine.
Troodon, would you suppose it can be said that a movie critic's review of a movie is more objective than that of the producer or director of the movie? If so, then I suppose you would also agree that a TPG's opinion on a coin's grade can be said to be more objective than that of the owner of the coin. Which, BTW, just so happens to have been the context in which I made that statement you said you have to disagree with. Just some FYI, now. FWIW... Hell, very good...I agree!!! Geeze, getting so even the guys you agree with these days disagree with you.
I wouldn't say that, no... objectivity is like pregnancy or death; there are no degrees of it. Either a statement is objective, or it is not. (Besides, technically it's a flawed analogy... comparing a critic's views to someone involved in making a movie would be like comparing a TPG's views to the people involved in minting the coin, not the owners.) On balance I think we mostly agree though... I'd think most people would concede that even if the TPGs have a service of value (I'd strongly disagree with that, but that's a different issue than being discussed here) that the only reason it would make sense to get your coins slabbed would be if you planned on selling them... if you're keeping them yourself, and plan to do so indefinitely, there's not really any point in doing so.
Don't know exactly where you're getting your usage of the term from but you're certainly entitled to think what you want. As far as the relevance of that analogy goes, you might consider both the producer/director and owner have personal stakes in the matter and as such can be supposed to exhibit some degree of distortion due to personal prejudices and biases. Here it is (emphasis supplied)...the dictionary-definition...should you still remain unconvinced as to the accepted usage of the term and/or relevance of the analogy... ob·jec·tive (b-jktv), adj. 1. Of or having to do with a material object. 2. Having actual existence or reality. 3a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. 3b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal. Link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/objective EDIT: Just some further FYI, FWIW... Google: "degree of objectivity" Results 1 - 10 of about 23,000 Google: “more objective” Results 1 - 10 of about 945,000 Google: “less objective” Results 1 - 10 of about 84,900
