HI I have three coins I am trying to find out what they are and how much they are worth and would appreciate any help I have been on the the net for a long time without any luck many thanks for any help Regards
Hi @Garyreg..... What you may not know yet is that Coin Talk has a very active Ancient coins section brimming with extremely knowledgeable ancient coin enthusiasts. Those folks more often than not tend to stay in the ancients section of the forum. I promise you, there are folks here that can help you with your question. I am just afraid that your question may be in the wrong place to get the proper attention. Perhaps one of the mods can move this thread for you? @desertgem or @ToughCOINS maybe?
No worries. I’m glad to help. The forum has rules on how and why they are able to move a thread and I don’t know if yours fits that. If they aren’t able to move it and if you don’t get an answer, maybe give it a day or so and just create a new thread under the Ancients part of the forum. Good luck!
Hey @Randy Abercrombie just click the "Report" at the bottom of the post and ask for it to be changed. @Garyreg many in the Ancients Forum aren't interested in telling you the value, after you get it identified, that becomes your job...Google is your friend. Welcome to CT
The one on the right has a clear legend saying "of the people of Side". Type in to a search for Side (See-day). I did this on acsearch.com and found this: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2397654 That coin is given as AE17 which means a 17mm diameter bronze coin. You did not give measurements. There appears to be a countermark on the helmet of Athena on the obverse like this one: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3466734 Note that measurements like AE16 and AE17 are approximate. Coins were struck without collars so they vary a bit.
The bottom one is a coin of Odessos. the reverse depicts "The Great God of Odessos" reclining. https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=260221
A first step in attributing ancient coins is to identify what figures/deities are being portrayed. For example, Doug has recognized 'Athena'(commonly portrayed with a Corinthian style helmet) on the obverse of the coin on the right. On the reverse, a winged figure can be seen. 'Nike' is represented here. So, with the clues of 'Athena' and 'Nike', one can then begin to search databases of ancient coins to find a match. The additional aid of being able to read (and decipher) any legends is an additional clue. ΣIΔH (S)igma (I)ota (D)elta (E)ta TΩN (T)au (O)mikron (N)u So let's try the coin on the bottom left. I can see a female(?) figure on the obverse and a figure reclining on the reverse. The legend is sort of hard to read. I can make out the 1st letter as (O)mikron. I also can see what appears to be ?ΗΣΙΤ. Here, Wikipedia is one's friend. Look up ancient Greek cities starting with 'O'. and ending ?ESIT? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_Greek_cities O?ESIT? Odessos perhaps? Let's give it a try. Sure enough a (bronze)coin search brings up Thrace, Odessos. https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=934303 EDIT: Damn it @PeteB , You beat me to it.
I'll chime in somewhat redundantly because two of them are countermarked - and nicely countermarked at that. The upper right one, as Doug pointed out is from Side, Pamphylia, and has a countermark. This countermark is rather interesting, and somewhat mysterious, to me anyway. Some describe it as showing a sheep's knucklebone! These were used in gaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knucklebones Or it might be a pomegranate. I never did find a definitive, authoritative source for these. Here's mine: Side, Pamphylia Æ 12 (205-191 B.C.) Helmeted head of Athena right / ΣIΔHTΩ[N], Nike walking left, holding wreath and palm branch, pomegranate in left field. BMC 66; SNG France 740; SNG von Aulock 4806; SNG Cop 408; Sear 5440. Countermark: See reverse. (3.37 grams / 12 mm) Countermark: Astragalos (sheep knuckle bone)? 6 x 4 mm obverse. I found this countermark on this host in several places (auctions, eBay), although I could not find any solid attribution information. Some describe it as an owl or a pomegranate. You asked about value for these. When researching mine, I found quite a few examples online for sale, so I think it is fairly common. Yours is a nice specimen, better than mine, I think. In a fancy auction such as the one Doug linked, maybe $50-$100. I got mine on eBay for about $7.50, but I'm a bargain hunter. *** As for the coin on the upper left, this is another one from Odessos, showing the Great God reclining. It too has a countermark - a Greek letter Delta in a circle. Value would be about the same as the Side, I'm guessing, as these are somewhat "common" for this sort of thing. Here are a couple of auction links: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3172511 https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5097463 Nice coins. I should add, if all this information is new to you, and seems a bit overwhelming, I knew nothing about Greek bronzes or ancient countermarks three years ago - a lot of help here on Coin Talk was the ticket to most of my knowledge. Blundering into stuff online did most of the rest. It is a fun hobby - and you have three great coins to start with.
Yeah, I saw the Pomegranate-Side connection when I was looking these up. As I dimly recall, some of the countermarks looked quite a bit like a pomegranate (and were described as such). Others, however, looked more like knucklebones (according to others - I'm not sure I've ever personally seen a sheep's knucklebone!). There are owl countermarks on these Side AEs as well. A clear separation of types does not seem to exist, at least online. Maybe the countermark is all the same - but executed with various degrees of competence? Heck if I know.
Knucklebones or Astragalus are / were bones from small animals like pigs, sheet, goats, etc. they were used for children's games, adult games of chance, divinations and who knows what. Many of the bone Astragalus had lead added for weight. I have bronze, lead & silver (see my avitar) examples. One of my favorites is in the British Museum. Cast bronze coins often have them. They have six sides if you count the ends. You can see 4 sides in the pics above. Note the Pb in some of the bone examples. I suspect games did not include the small rounded ends. If the playing surface was sand, there would be a small chance of an end landing. The coin shown above has a girl playing with Astragalus. Cilicia, TARSOS (389-375 BC) AR Obol (9.4 mm. - 0.63 gr.). D. \: Female kneeling left, astralagoi tossing. R. \: Male head right. SNG France 239
Thank you for sharing this. You have a most impressive and attractive collection of these. My astragalus knowledge has been increased immensely! I'm beginning to suspect the countermark on my coin is a pomegranate, as RC suggests. I think I see a stem - something not found on an astragalus.
My apologies if I jump in a little late and maybe you have already figured out the countermark on your coin. Yesterday evening, I was reading Ulrich Werz's catalogue http://publikationen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/frontdoor/index/index/docId/6876 an impressive work on countermarks. Wanted to find a countermark on one of my coins, in particular in the catalogue at 2Werz_Gegenstempel_Teil_II.pdf and I remembered your thread. Your countermark looks exactly like type Typ 16.1 on page 54 of 2Werz_Gegenstempel_Teil_II.pdf Maybe you want to take a look
Wow, what an impressive work on countermarks! I had no idea this existed. Thank you so much for sharing this.
