Is there a country where the GOVERNMENT itself was counterfeiting another country's coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by JCro57, May 7, 2020.

  1. Bambam8778

    Bambam8778 Well-Known Member

    I just read an article in Numismatic News about counterfeiting. I had to write one for my blog too. I knew about the WW2 counterfeiting with a very limited degree of success however I was not aware of the other mentions here. I never heard the rumor of USSR doing the merc thing. I wonder if there is any more on this. That would be an interesting read. The whole China thing really rubs me the wrong way and I make it a point every time I get on ebay to report 5-10 postings. I know it's not the government but it still infuriates me.
     
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  3. The Eidolon

    The Eidolon Well-Known Member

    Yes, in the early days of modern copper coinage (1500s-1600s) neighboring political units would make their own copies to capture some of the seignorage revenues. These would often circulate freely, to the dismay of the original issuer

    Below is an example from Sargent & Velde "The Big Problem of Small Change" Fake Tournois.jpg
     
  4. CaptHenway

    CaptHenway Survivor

    The rumor, which I consider quite plausible but which has never been confirmed (to the best of my knowledge) is that Russia struck counterfeit 1923-D and 1930-D Dimes, among possibly other date and mint mark combinations and/or other denominations.
     
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  5. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    I should have expanded on my post about the Crusader States imitations.

    [​IMG]
    Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem gold Bezant copied from Fatimid dinar
    Gold, 20 mm, 3.90 gm, struck AD 1148-1187

    In 1099 when the Pope launched the Crusades, gold coins had not been struck or used Europe for centuries.

    When the Crusaders arrived in the Holy Land they discovered that gold coins were used there, either Byzantine issues or coins made by the Moslem Fatimid empire in Cairo, Egypt.

    Crusaders established kingdoms in Palestine, including the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and began minting gold coins.

    These coins were copies of Moslem Fatimid coins, down to the Kufic legends promoting Islam as the true religion. Kufic was a form of Arabic writing used at the time. Most of the copies used the design of the Fatimid king al-Amir who ruled AD 1101-1130. The first coins were direct copies, as time went on the legends became less clear.

    The Crusader imitations became called Saracenic Bezants, as Bezant was a term applied to a gold coin of the Byzantine empire.

    The coin legends would be, if they were clearer, from outside to inside:

    Obverse:
    In the name of God, this dinar was struck in Misr... (Misr is Egypt or Cairo)
    Ali is the most excellent of the caretakers and the vizier...
    Iman al-Mansour

    Reverse:
    Muhammad is the messenger of God who sent him with guidance and the religion of truth...
    There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God
    Cairo

    In AD 1250 Pope Innocent IV (AD 1243-1254) ordered the Crusaders to stop making coins with Islamic legends and some began putting Christian legends on their coins.

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  6. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The movie was decent but it took significant liberties with the actual events.
     
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