Reading the thread "NGC versus PCGS" got me thinking. It's apparent that the companies aren't consistent in their grading or their ability to detect counterfeits - what I thought were the two main reasons for slabbing. Since this is the case, what is the real purpose for getting a coin graded and slabbed by an outside service? We're aware of the axiom "Buy the coin, not the slab" so in purchasing a coin, the slab is unimportant. Presumably, the same would go for selling; you're selling to someone who is buying the coin, not the slab. Some may feel that having a slabbed coin gives them prestige or bragging rights, but are you really more impressed by a slabbed coin than by a raw one? As far as protecting the coin, slabs have been shown to be not airtight, so they don't protect against atmospheric gasses and water vapor. They may protect against contact damage, but your own holder can do that. So the basic question remains, unless you feel compelled to enrich the grading service, why go through the bother of getting a coin slabbed?
MONEY!!! I collect because I love old US coinage. Some people collect to sell and "try" and make a profit. If I were unknowledgeable about grading coins then I would have to rely on NGC, PCGS, ICG and ANACS to have a shot at having the grade coin I wish to own. I don't trust anything but my own two eyes as to the condition and authenticity of a coin. Also add a crap load of research and education. Slabbed coins that have been slabbed by top TPG companies do carry credibility enough for some people to be able to buy sight unseen or by pics, anything but in hand. If spending 15 dollars could make me 100 dollars or more then that would be a profit of 85 dollars. Do that X10 or X100 or X1000 and you can see where the MONEY comes in to play. I don't collect slabbed coins but I do have examples mostly MS65 that I use as bench marks for grading MS coins of mine, that I will never have slabbed or sell for that matter. Keep on Collecting!!! Allen
The flaw is that there are a LOT of people who by based on what the slab says and not the coin and they will over pay based on what the slab says. Also these same people either aren't able to judge the coins for themselves or don't trust their own judgement. But they want to spend money on coins, sometimes lots of money. So they place ultimate faith in the grading services. You may have exactly the coin they want, in the grade they want, and at a fair price that they would gladly pay, but since it hasn't been blessed by the TPG his uncertainty removes your coin from consideration. And their name is legion.
Aside from the fact that I believe you have started with the wrong assumptions... Even when I take your assumptions, my answer is that it depends. If you are a person who like coins hands-on, have no intention of selling, or leaving your coins to your uneducated (numismatically speaking) relatives, the only advantage would be some protection. If your are planning on selling, you will be better of slabbing. However, if you are anywhere near the point where your collection has a remote chance of winding up with your numismatically challenged relatives, the only reason I can think of that you would not slab them would be because you hate them.
I agree, money...people will pay more because it gives them a false sense of security. It has been discussed here before, what I feel to be a poor practice of buying a coin for cheap getting it slabbed and bumping the price up, selling it for quite a bit more, eeking a few bucks out of the hobby (which is what TPGs do themselves) because its slabbed and graded...all in all making coin prices higher. Its just a way for sellers to make a few more bucks and buyers to pay a few more in exchange for a false sense of security.
David, I'm replying in-line. These are just my opinions, now... Assuming the foregoing assumptions are valid (and, fact is, I don't know, either way, so I'm not assuming they're not valid), I'd say, simply, to facilitate trading. I hear that "axiom" one more time I think I'm going to puke. From a pure investment standpoint, think about it, who cares about the coin? Can you see "pedigree," in a coin? Yet, pedigree now lifts the coin's market grade, because the market is willing to pay for it. The only relevance that bromide has is for collectors. And if you're a collector you don't need no stinking third-party opinion. When you buy, you do the same thing, whether the coin is "slabbed" or "raw." You look at the coin, grade the coin, and you forget about the TPG and/or CAC, they're irrelevant. Those are idiots, IMHO. Absolutely. If you're a seller, you want that third-party "professional" opinion on the coin, because that's going to help facilitate the transaction, at a grade that's consistent with what the market is willing to shell out. The TPGs know that, because that's their job.
All agree "Buy the coin, not the slab". But that doesn't mean that the slab has no value. Let's say you're at a coin show. You're conscientous and have read up and studied up. You've been around for a while... maybe five years or so. You spot a piece that is a stretch - both financially and expertise-wise. Not a big stretch, but you are expanding your horizon on this one. It appears to be an exceptional coin, and you've looking for one of these for a while. Lucky you ! You spot an acquaintance whom you know is quite knowledgeable in this area. An expert on this coin. Would you listen to his advice ? Of course. Would you blindly accept his advice ? Of course not. An expert opinion would be part of your decision process... your final decision is a result of all the inputs - your expertise plus advice from others. The final decision is your and yours alone. And that's what a slab is - an expert opinion. Actually it's the consensus of three experts - all of 'em are probably better than I. Don't think of a "slab" as merely the plastic. Include the expert opinion that is bundled with it. Are experts always right ? No. Are they always totally consistent ? No. No one is. Neither are the TPGs. But I feel TPGs are accurate enough for me to consider their expert opinion when making my decision.
I am with RLM. I don't want to rotate in the ground because my family "trusts" someone to help them get the best deal for my collection. Having the best coins slabbed won't prevent this entirely, but even a numismatic challenged wife or son can read a slab and the blue sheets and have a general idea how much a coin is worth. Especially to defuse the " It is a fake....give you $0 for that fake 55/55 lincoln". The sad part is that people are taken often quickly and at a young age. I hope every collector, no matter their age, who have heirs, make arrangements or leave specific instructions with their collection. I know one lawyer that has an extensive collection of coins and guns....guess where he got most. Jim
Simply, if you have to question why you should or shouldn't slab your coins, you probably are like me and see no valid point in spending thousands of dollars on a cheap plastic case and an opinion you could have made for free. The only reason would be in selling your coins at top dollar. The old buy the coin not the slab is true only for those who really collect. The others, like was mentioned, could care less. You could have slabbed toenail clipping from TD Roosevelt and someone would be happy to shell out a grand to aquire them because a TPG said they were MS 65. As far as doing your uneducated family members a disservice by not slabbing them, thats rediculous. If you don't have the time to basically educate them on your lifelong collecting, then you don't care about family that much. Spend some time with them and share your collecting knowledge. That way when you pass it on, it's not just a box of junk they can't wait to discard...it'll be a memory and maybe a passion. I've heard a lot of lame excuses as to why slabbing is good and why it's not. It's really up to you....it's your collection. Guy~
That's a pretty harsh statement. Say if your family isn't interested in coins like you are? stainless
Then I won't pass them on to them. They won't need it for the money when I'm gone, so if they can't enjoy them for what they are, I'll find someone that will. No need to dump a lot of stuff they don't want on their laps. Guy~
Ok, thats a fair response. I didn't mean to make my ststement seem harsh or anything. I make the time to share my coins with my kids, because I guess they do have a sort of interest in them. But, I'm hoping in doing so, even if they decide to not carry on my collection someday, that they at least have a knowledge as to their worth and merit. Then, if they sell it they will get what the collection is worth based on what I taught them. Do I think every collector can accomplish this.....of course not. But, it's worth a try. Guy~
Well, I thought the thread was to discuss reasons why a person would slab, I didn't know it was similar to a political discussion where it seems more now, defend why you would slab. Good Karma to all, may your paths in life be kind. Jim
My "kid" is almost 40 years old. She has no interest in collecting anything. Lives in a gorgeous home that is just about baron of anything resembling a collectible from art to coins. The verdict is still out on the grandkids. They may have a seed planted.
I couldn't disagree more. I can't think of anything worse than becoming a pain in the slab trying to force other family members to become expert in your choice of hobbies. I prefer to buy anything with significant value in a slab from a top tier TPG because there is a high probability that I won't be the one selling it. I could equally say that if you don't care about your family, then leave them a box of raw coins and let "experts" and "trusted advisors" help them liquidate the collection. Slabs are cheap by comparison.
Everybody always seems to think that you have to spend a fortune slabbing coins. Well, I've owned thousands of slabbed coins and never spent 1 cent on the slabs. I've never submitted a single coin for grading - ever. And to me, THAT is where people make their mistake. There is no need to submit coins for grading and pay all those grading fees. Why ? Because there are thousands of them out there already slabbed - buy the coin already slabbed and it doesn't cost you anything for the slab. Yeah I know, all too many think they can get such a better deal by buying a raw coin and then submitting it. Well guess what - 99% of the time you can't. You may think you did, but you didn't. And that's the part that the TPG's just love. They know that you think that you can pick out raw coins that are under-graded by the seller and then submit them, get a higher grade than the seller assigned and come out like a bandit. They BANK on you thinking that ! And yeah, once in a while you can pull it off. But 9 out of 10 times you won't. Of course you'll forget those 9 times and only remember the 1. That's what keeps these people in business. What you'll find if you take the time and actually keep an open mind is that you can get the same coin already slabbed, in the grade you want, for the same price as you can buy that raw coin. Of course you might have to look around a little, shop a little and you won't have that "instant gratification" that everybody in today's world seems to think they can't live without. But what you will have is a collection of coins slabbed and graded by a reputable company for all the reasons you want them to be - and you won't ever pay a single grading fee. Remember folks - there are 25 million coins out there already graded. Trust me, they have the ones you want.
On the other side of that, I paid $30 for a 23-S and $85 for a 24-D. I was elated to pay to have them slabbed as 63RB and 63BR respectively.
I have no doubt. But you are one of the few exceptions to the rule. For those with the knowledge slabs are not necessary. But there aren't many who have your level of knowledge.
