Why are fakes being sold for so much?

This isnt one of those being sold as genuine listings either, its presented as a blatant fake and laughable at best.
Why are ppl bidding so much for this crap... I got a bridge for sale if you know what I mean?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1804-1801-Altered-Date-US-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent-Coin-113-/392740355031?hash=item5b71263bd7%3Ag%3A4rkAAOSwms1efT7z&nma=true&si=7tIQtkpBL7MvDRlN%252B4ya75O8Fb0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Why would someone pay so much for this abomination... yuck!!!

 

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I have no idea why anyone paid nearly $150 for a heavily scratched large cent. I would say it's worth maybe the $25 suggested by the price tag in one of the images. Altered dates of this nature are commonly used as hole fillers, since 1804 is one of the key dates.

That said, there are some really nice electrotype replicas, many of which were made around 150 years ago, that are nice looking and collectible. I have a 1799 electro that looks to be a mid VF range coin. I paid a couple hundred for it, but were it an authentic coin, it would be more like a $25-30,000 coin. I've also got an electro of a 1793 wreath cent, and a proof-only Classic Head half cent, which I paid similar amounts for.

These electrotypes are fun collectibles, provided you look at them for what they are. They won't appeal to everyone, but, IMO, at least they make better hole fillers than that ugly, scratched up, altered cent.

 

People's attitudes towards gaps are interesting. My view is that if you have to fill the gap, then the ugly, scratched up (but not altered) cent is fine. At least you have a genuine example. Most times, I'd rather see a gap. (The linked coin belongs in the 1801 space, btw. )

If you buy any type of replica, contemporary or otherwise, you've spent money that you could have spent elsewhere, and you still don't have the coin. In the case of modern replicas, you've also fuelled the fakes market. I get the collection of contemporary counterfeits, although it's not for me.

I laugh when I see Royal Mint albums for things like the Olympic 50ps, with a space for a "completer medallion".



People can't bear to have a gap, so they have to buy a worthless shiny round thing to tell them that they've got all the others.

 

Because some people have more money than sense.

 

Let me give you a newbie take on this.
First of all.....no place in the listing does it say counterfeit or fake, just altered date. In the fine print it says
"All genuine guaranteed!".

This isn't my collecting area, so I would not even give this auction a second look, but looking at it in your link. If it's a fake or counterfeit, it is not listed as such.
Maybe an experienced collector would know right off.....but not a new collector.
I also realize by counterfeit you are referring to the altered date. And yes, he made that clear. Even a newbie can see that, but they may not realize the implications of that on the coins value.

 

Unless the wrong link was posted nothing is being presented as a fake or sold as one.

An 1804 large cent in basically any condition is incredibly expensive as even an FR 2 is 700 plus usually. Altered dates and fakes are different things and if someone just wants an example they can afford well there it is.

 

Well it is an altered 1801 with a 1/000 reverse. If it had turned out to be an altered 1801 NC-3 or NC-4 I would VERY HAPPILY have paid that for it. As it is actually an S-223 which is an R-1 coin it might be worth $15 to $20 as a novelty.

 

I suppose on the more sinister side the “winner” may have a venue to try and sell it to someone unknowing as genuine; that is my fear when I see things like this on the Bay and I’m confident the listing would have been removed if reported.

I also have some very nice electrotypes and again some may be good enough to sell as genuine which is a concern in the wrong hands.

I have seen tooled and “weathered” Gallery Mint examples attempted to be sold as low grade genuine examples, with one well documented piece actually slabbed as genuine…

Quick story- when I first joined EAC I decided to buy a lower grade “1804 Restrike” (actually a counterfeit) for my early large cent collection. I received the “coin” and sent it with a couple of other low grade large cents in to ANACS for slabbing- I was quite surprised when the 1804 came back in a body bag as counterfeit. Upon closer inspection I could see the seam of an electrotype- a fake of a fake! I learned from the experience, received my money back and have wished several times I had kept it!

 

I don't think I've ever seen a totally convincing electrotype. Even if the details are good (which they typically are on a decent electro), there are no casting bubbles (as you'd see on a very good electro), and the seam not visible, the weight will generally give it away. Even if the seam is not visible, electrotypes can't replicate luster, so that's another tell.

Are you saying you have some that are of good weight, with good details, the seam hidden, and no casting artifacts?

 

Weight is good and seam is well hidden (can't see with a loop) and edge is irregular but I haven't handled any genuine examples for comparison; review the images for the details and surface. You may be able to see something from your experience Paul but I believe many would be fooled.



One of the issues with this one is this variety just doesn't come this good without it being well documented!

 

@Jack D. Young I'm not familiar with this particular coin, but I don't really see anything obviously wrong, if the seam is hidden and the weight is good. What gives this one away to you?

 

The original as plated in Breen. Appears to be the same piece. Centering, depression on neck, roughness behind head, etc. match.



Edge has been worked on/ tooled which can be best seen under a microscope. This piece came from an old time collection of other electros (thought to be made mid-late 19th century).

 

Because P.T.Barnum was right.

 

Any chance you could post pictures of these? I would very much like to see them.

 

Ever seen "Tommy Boy"? "All genuine guaranteed!" If the seller is commenting on the coin being genuine, what does that mean? That it's a genuine coin? If so, the statement is true, although quite deceptive. I own a genuine 1889 CC, counterfeit dollar. I carry it around as a reminder that there are many fakes out there. There's a saying in sales. "The bitter taste of a bad purchase lasts much longer then the sweet taste of a great price". Buyer beware....

 

When I see something like "guaranteed authentic" in a listing, I assume that means "this thing is exactly what I say it is." So, in this context, I would assume it's a genuine coin with an altered date, as it says in the listing.

 

Where do you find this misplaced confidence?

This is ebay. They care about one thing: profit.

A genuine coin sells - they make money.
A fake coin sells - they make money.
A fake coins sells for a high price - they make more money.
Someone shill bids a price up - they make more money.

The sale of fakes is tacitly condoned because they pay no more than lip service to their "policies". Very occasionally they remove a listing - presumably if it is reported by a large number of people. Test this out - find an obvious fake and report it. It will not be removed. If you post it on a forum and large numbers of people report it, something might be done.

You used to be able to see buyers' IDs and spot shill bidding easily. Everything is now hidden and it's much more difficult to detect. There's a reason for that - they like shill bidding because it makes them more money. It is in their interest to encourage it rather than prevent it.

Let's not pretend otherwise eh?

 

Because I and my group report and have removed bad coin listings every day of every week. I place my confidence in myself...

 

That's the thing - group. Is that confidence in yourself, or confidence in numbers? I did say it takes numbers (do you happen to know if there's a threshold?) - one individual has no effect in my experience. Do you go through normal listing reporting?

Can I notify you and your group when I spot a fake? It sounds like I'd have more success than reporting them to ebay.

 

Fill your boots: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_ssn=pana_nis&_pgn=2&_skc=50&rt=nc