PR70 or PR69 ?

How about this for data. PCGS graded 13 1977-S IKE's out of 9,000+ with the PF70 grade. But you are right Ruben, they weren't really grading the coins, they were just applying the old 700 to 1 quota.

Haloween is coming up soon, don't forget your big shoes, red nose, and your horn.

 

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If it is a fact, how come it is not a fact to everyone? - because you have not proved it.

"Going to sue them over there (sic, their) claim" They are not going to lose any suit any more than SGS will. Because it is an opinion - their opinion of their definition. And you still have the same situation I gave you to begin with. You are the accuser. Therefore, you must prove they did wrong.

 

It is a fact for everyone, like UFO's, you can deny their existence, but they are real.

Ruben

 

OH! :stooge:

 

LMAO. Maybe we can get hire the aliens to work for PCGS and NGC since the difference between 69 & 70 is not humanly accessible. :rolling:

 

Ah, but therein lies the problem. There's nothing to prove or disprove because whatever grade the TPG assigns, it is just their OPINION. An opinion is purely subjective; there is no such thing as a right or wrong one.

Why anybody is willing to treat grading as if any opinion is right or wrong, and that supposedly expert opinions are worth any more than anyone else's, boggles my mind.

I say the TGPs' opinions are worthless, or at least worth no more than anyone else's. And don't give me the argument that they are experts because of how many coins they grade; the opinions of a film critic who sees hundreds of movies a year are no less subjective opinions than those of someone who only sees a handful.

Seriously, put the TPGs out of business and end this nonsensical belief that any given coin has a right or wrong grade. It will get everyone out of the hobby that is ruining it, get the investors out, and leave it to the true collectors who collect coins for their own sake and can decide for themselves how valuable or desirable a given coin is.

**** the TPGs! They provide absolutely nothing worth paying for and the hobby would be a lot better off without them.

 

Really? This is way too extreme. Maybe I don't want to be an expert or have vast knowledge on every single type of coin that exists. That doesn't mean I might not want one at a show and be left wondering what the appropriate grade is.

I don't know where your hatred comes from but it's unwarranted. I'll take a slab any day over a 2x2. Especially for high dollar coins. The sellers I just ran into weren't looking to give you a deal based on your opinion.

 

You are absolutely correct. They are worth just as much as anyone else's opinion who has the training they have, has graded as many coins as they have, will back their grades financially like they do, have the respect (financial) that they carry, etc. Right now I know of either 2 or 4 fitting these criteria depending on how rigidly you apply the criteria. When you find another, let me know.

 

Slabbs and grading has its place. I couldn't collect without that expertise.

The first thing I do when I decide I like a coin and I'm going to make a purchase is to go to school. I study the slabs and coin conditions on Heritage. It usually takes me a month before I feel comfortable with the grading and market before making a purchase.

Ruben

 

I can understand this for a $10 gold piece. But should I find a half dime I really like and need to know whether I should pay 20 or 30 for it, is this worth a month too? So I can maybe grade it accurately?

 

Well, maybe not. Those are the kind of test purchases I make on the way to the real fish. I usually have something in mind, lately it seems to be a 1917 type 1 quarter in MS66 or better. I tend to collect coins like others buy art.

Ruben

 

Wrong--the burden of proof is one the one who brings up the issue. I can say all day long that Doug has red hair and blue eyes. The burden of proof is not on Doug, but rather on me.

What do you mean by that?
How can you prove that?
And what would you do/say if you are wrong?

I guess the next thing will be that the burden of proof is on the "UFO's".

Speedy

 

Lolol

 

No, the burden of proof is on the grading company. And no matter what you say it doesn't change. The Grading Companies have a fiduciary responsibility to guarantee their product and servers are of the quality advertised and the universal tools to do that is peer reviewable validations and quality assurances. Other wise you can make any claim you want, and frankly they are virtually doing that anyway.

Only a crackpot would accept a TPG grade of 70 over a 69 without some strong proof that the grading company is capable of that determination on a consistent bases, backed by hard boiled statistic facts.


Ruben

 

Your questionig UFO's?

hmmm

 

Using that logic, it is up to the UFO's to prove that they exist. But, I have this feeling that I am talking to myself. You have me blocked, don't you Ruben?

 

Maybe, it depends are you associated with spock's mafia.

 

Duh.....they DO guarantee their product and service. I don't know about servers because I didn't know that TPG's offered servers. We are looking to upgrade some of our hosting servers...who is better....PCGS or ANACS??

If the coin matches the grading standers for a 70 grade then it should rightly get it. Unless you can offer some proof that the grading companies can't grade a 69 from a 70, and that they flip a coin, then my friend....you are in the wrong.
If you don't have proof, then you shouldn't be casting stones.

I've known you for sometime now, and for the most part trust you. If you say that you have emails from coin graders saying that they flip a coin then post it. If you don't, then be a man and say so and say your sorry for posting something that wasn't true.

Speedy

 

I never said they flip a coin. I said, when speaking informally, that you can flip a coin to determine the difference between a 60 and a 70. I didn't say that was their practice. I'll tell you something else, that email was from someone you know fairly well.

Ruben

 

BTW - you can't make that guarantee stick without a lawsuite. I only remember one time that PSGC paid damages on their guarantee and they facing a lawsuit.

Tort is not a business means of guaranteeing quality results. Everyone in business knows that a guarantee, even in writing, is a scam that can only be enforced in court.

Real guarantees are and reliable grading can only be produced with the processes I've outline, annotated and explained. I know it is boring, because it is not coin collecting, but it is business standards from product development and quality and that is why there is such poor results when grading 69's and 70's as well as 63s and 64s

Ruben