Do You Have a Black Cabinet?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kevin McGonigal, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call it a "cabinet" but I do have some fakes that I keep. Most fake coins I have (that I know of) I've bought for fun, knowing they were fake or just reproductions. Here's a an interesting fake coin:

    ConstantiusFake2.JPG
    Constantius as Caesar... and Augustus?

    I noticed the NOB C AVG at the end of the obverse legend and said "that's odd"... scratched my head and started searching... It's fake, fake, fake. Although, in hand it's not bad. I got it for about $10 and afterwards felt a bit silly spending even that amount on a coin that I knew was not ancient. But!... I like it as a curio.
     
    Carl Wilmont, thejewk and Bing like this.
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  3. Lolli

    Lolli Active Member

    "CNG has perhaps the largest black cabinet around. It’s probably 7500-10000 items."

    How did they get so many ?
    If a coin at auction turns out to fake and it will be noticed before or while or shortly after sale it will be withdrawn. The turn around of money is in most cases not immediately, so even if the coin will be noticed short after auction as fake the auction house will not free the money for the coin and take the coin back from the buyer and send it back to consignor. And even after sale it will be possible to send the coin back to consignor and gwtting the money back in most cases.
    Most people who go to auction houses want to sell their coins at autions, to get more money for them than selling them to aution houses or dealers for much less.
    That whole collections including fakes will be sold to auciton houses is very rare because it means that the seller is very stupid or needs the money very very fast.

    How to get fakes as auction house:
    1. if you buy whole collections (very rare and dream of auction houses because they will make huge profit)
    2. If coins sold at their auction turn out to be fake and they are not able to get money back from consignor
     
  4. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    I find there is tremendous value in these "black cabinet" coins, both to study and to keep from falling into the wrong hands. There is no better tool to study genuine coins than to look at and compare the fakes. In fact, I even get mine slabbed by @Insider at ICG. You really understand the minting process more by studying fakes and altered coins.

    If anyone doesn't want the ones they have, I will gladly take them off your hands! (Just PM me!)

    fake mule slab.jpg 1943 1c copper slab.jpg 1944 Henning Nickel Counterfeits.JPG
     
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    And your new Avatar is Awesome... I will say it again: GREAT Seriphos Frog!
     
    Justin Lee likes this.
  6. ab initio

    ab initio Well-Known Member

    It would be my pleasure to post photos of credible fakes, both Greek (mostly) and (a few) Roman (not so credible, I think) but I do not know how to transfer photos taken by my Apple cell phone to my Apple Laptop and post them to the forum. If someone could guide me step by step I would be more than glad to do a "show" with some comments on each, like the auctions where they have appeared as genuine.
     
    Carausius, Carthago and Orange Julius like this.
  7. Mike Thornton

    Mike Thornton Learning something new everyday.

    No black box but I have a couple fakes. One purchased, and I knew better and made a bad choice anyway. The second is a very nice looking counterfeit 1889 CC. It's a very good copy and fooled an experienced dealer. Was sent to PCGS and returned in a flip and an appropriate note of it's status. I had to grovel a bit but it was gifted to me. I knew its status and offered to buy it, and this dealer refused to sell it knowing it was FAKE. I explained I wanted it as a novelty and he gave it to me. It's in a round capsule and carried in my pocket as a reminder of the number of counterfeits going around. The first one was chocked up to an expensive lesson. BTY the first one is an 1877 Trade Dollar.
     
  8. ab initio

    ab initio Well-Known Member

    If anyone wants to read about a different way of thinking when it comes to buying fakes they can go to what I wrote to Wayne Sayles and gave him permission to transfer it verbatim to his book "Classical Deception". It is on page 122. And for the members who do not own the book I will copy the closing lines:
    "Unless a collector concedes that he will be duped in the process of his collecting and that he will buy at least some fakes, he will never be a real collector. Because collecting, like life, is not only about winning, it is about both winning and losing".
     
  9. Orange Julius

    Orange Julius Well-Known Member

    Hi @ab initio !
    Probably the easiest thing to do is post from your iPhone. Just push the “upload a file” button and then push “photo library.” After choosing and uploading your photo place it in your post by dropping the cursor where you could like and hit the “full image” button.

    if you don’t want to post from your phone, you could always text or email photos to yourself/computer or import them into iphoto program by connecting your phone to computer and using the same process above to post them.

    I’d love you see your convincing fakes and hear what you have to say about them!
     
  10. Suarez

    Suarez Well-Known Member

    I have an unusual route in that some people send me coins to certify and when they turn out to be fake they don't ask for them back or skip paying the COA bill. I put them in this little dish by my computer and there they stay. Not sure what to do with them.

    Rasiel

    20200424_162835.jpg
     
  11. Suarez

    Suarez Well-Known Member

    This one's good enough that I'm on the fence about its authenticity. I'm leaning fake but have some remaining doubts. It doesn't help that there aren't a lot of peers with which to compare. All the same, it's worthwhile to publish in case it turns up elsewhere because it's a $50,000 piece if legit, melt value if not.

    DSC_0022.JPG
     
    Bing likes this.
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