My first coin

My first coin (of hopefully many) arrived today! I thought I’d knock a big name off the list and get and Alexander. I was drawn to it because of it’s lovely lettering, something that interests me as a classics student who is learning Ancient Greek.
Being new to collecting numismatics I come with a few questions; how come some coins have a fairly shiny finish such as mine, whilst others appear much less clear and almost dirty? Is it because they have been polished or it’s it to do with the conditions they were found in? Also, above Herakles’ club on the reverse is the only figure I don’t understand the meaning of, it looks like a hooked “r” and I was wondering if someone could tell me what this represents?
What was everyone else’s first coin? post below!

Minted 336-323, 18mm, 6.10g

 

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Here was my first ancient coin, bought just about 3 years ago this next month... A Maximian Genio Populi Romani follis:

(original photo from when I got it)

I had no idea these existed at that point and stumbled upon this one while searching ebay for old modern US. I wasn't even a huge collector, just dabbling in coins... Boy did that change when I got hooked on ancients!

Also, I think that is like a Pi, П. Maybe stands for a certain mint or magistrate? Simply a control mark? Some similar on ACsearch...

Here's a similar one to your's, but it has a K below:

Macedonian Kingdom
Alexander III (the Great)
AE17, Circa 336-323 BC, Lifetime Issue
Obverse: Head of Herakles wearing lion’s skin, right.
Reverse: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ, bow and quiver above, club below, K control mark in exergue.
References: Price 301
Size: 17mm, 5.3g

 

Very impressive coin. What is it? Is it bronze, or billon? Not sure if I could afford it because I heard that obverse ruler is expensive, especially for a decent one like yours. There are different reasons for how a coin looks. Like you mentioned, it's how it was buried, like in a pot or just in dirt, the type of soil or its makeup, and of course what was done with it after discovery. I probably ruined a few cheap bronzes when I started months ago by over-cleaning them. I would say its over cleaning when you not only removed the dirt/mineralization, but also get to light colored metal (e.g., bronze/copper appear pinkish/orange). I keep mineralization unless its mixed with corrosion. For example, I was cleaning a coin recently so I could identify it and read the legend, but the metal is mixed with mineralization and corrosion, but it's altogether soft metal because of corrosion. I'm loathe to keep corrosive conditions like that on an ancient, so I either get rid of the coin cheap or clean it so that only new metal is exposed, then I try to re-tone or just leave as-is and put museum wax on it, and put in an airtight or regular 2x2 holder

 

Very nice coin! Especially for someone learning ancient Greek! That sounds like a challenge.

And this was my first ancient, a Roman Probus, which apparently needs some verdigris help on the reverse. No wonder it was so cheap.

 

Thanks that really helpful, it does look like a pi when comparing to those other coins, I do wonder what it stands for

 

Great start to your ancient collection GeorgeJoss, nice detail and toning. Congrats.

 

Welcome to CoinTalk!

I still not much of an ancient collector myself, but studying Latin and Greek years ago is also what got me into, at the very least, appreciating ancient coinage.

Ancient experts, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall years ago seeing a statement on this forum about how every piece of ancient coinage has been cleaned in some fashion over the years--that stands to reason to me, as you can't even find a US bust half dollar that hasn't been dipped.

Some ancient coinage was remarkably well kept, others well preserved after some damage was done, and plenty were in dirt for hundreds of years and may never look quite themselves ever again. The reason your coin looks the way it does isn't a univariable analysis, as seldom things are. Just be thankful for all the hands it passed through over the generations that preserved that wonderful piece of history. That is an outstanding piece you've got there, let alone for your first coin!

As a side note, assuming you attend university, be careful to which professors you bring up numismatics to. I've met and worked with plenty of classics professors who believe it is immoral to even own ancient coinage, because every time one of us hits "Buy It Now" on eBay, a historical site is brutally ransacked so that coin poachers can make a quick buck. I don't agree with their sentiment, but figured I'd pass along the warning.

 

Im Not entirely sure on its metal to be honest all I know is it’s an ‘Æ unit’, I’m not sure of its worth in antiquity maybe someone could help with that.
Also, I didn’t actually spend an overwhelming amount of money on it, I bought it for under £50 (thanks student loan) which I thought was rather well priced considering its condition, I feel like it’s a little bargain to me

 

AE represents the metal type, in this case AE = base metal or bronze (copper alloy).

Other metal abbreviations:
AR = Silver
AU = Gold
BL = Billion (silver & base metal alloy)
EL = Electrum (gold & silver alloy)​

Unit refers to the unknown denomination name, but is the "base" unit of that economy so that smaller denominations may be called "half unit", etc and larger denominations multiples of that unit like tetratdrachms, obols, or something.

 

Thank you I do feel rather chuffed with my coin now. Also thanks for the heads up lol. I hope none of my professors are so conservative but I shan’t mention it anyway. I feel the market for coins is a testament to how special they are. In my opinion they’d be wasted sitting in the ground, however the implications of digging them up can be tricky so I do understand

 

A nice pick-up of many more to come (they're addictive).

 

Thank you that’s really helpful, is there any way of determining whether mine is bronze or a base metal? Or a mixture of both, I’d love to know

 

They really are, I have my eyes on an Augustus seeing as he’s who I spend half my time reading about

 

Well the base metal is meant to be a copper alloy, and is more than likely bronze. There was not a huge overarching standard of amounts of other metals to be added to the base metal/copper across antiquity like there is more so today (like an agreed upon "this is the exact formula for bronze and this is the exact formula for brass"). So when the AE is used it is meaning it is a copper-based alloy of varying levels/additives. So your's is copper-based and could easily be called bronze... what the exact measurements are would require a sample and analysis. There are some metallurgical research and studies done for groups from various locations in ancient times you could search for if you are interested in such details.

 

Ah that really clears things up thank you, I hadn’t considering the varying proportions of metals in alloys

 

Hi @GeorgeJoss,

The first coin I bought was also an Alexander Æ.



KINGDOM of MACEDON
PHOENICIA, BYBLOS (330-320 BCE)
Æ Tetrachalkon

Size: 20x21 mm
Weight: 7.49 g
Die Axis: 11:00

Obv: NO LEGEND
Rev: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ : ΑΡ
References: Price-3427c, pl 147; SNG Copenhagen-1051; Mueller-1376; Adana-28-29

This was my first 'bought' ancient. Before this point as a very young child I started collecting pennies. After that, I had the fortune to be gifted a Byzantine Æ 12 nummi (Sear 861; MIB-209), so corroded as to be unphotographable now [but all the same ... thanks grandma!] Years later I got a two more ancient gifts within a few days of each other, but it wasn't till more than 10 years after that that I bought this coin.

- Broucheion

 

Let me give a little insight from my own experiences. When I began actively collecting after a couple of decades of absence, I started buying just about anything and everything within my budget with no regard to condition or rarity. This resulted in my owning a lot of coins, many of which I have had to upgrade. My advice is to buy the best examples within your budget right from the start. You may still want to upgrade some in the future, but not nearly as many.

 

Welcome to ancients and Coin Talk, George. That's a nice Macedonian AE you got there.

And I think I have one just like it - with the Gamma above the club. Here is mine with attribution (no guarantees on accuracy!). Mine is lighter than yours, so it might be a different denomination?



Macedon Æ Half Unit
Alexander III
(c. 336-323 B.C.)
Uncertain Macedon Mint
Head of Herakles right, with lionskin head-dress /AΛEΞANΔΡOY, between club above & bow and bowcase below; Γ above.
Price 312 var. (see note)
(6.62 grams / 17 mm)

Attribution Note:
"Price 312 var; Mueller 1698 var; cf Sear 6739.
(Price, Mueller etc. list coins with Gamma below, not above)."
Wildwinds

 

A coin's condition is determined by the type of metal (bronze, silver or gold), the conditions such as soil composition if buried (mineral composition), climatic conditions (arid versus temperate) and nature of deposition (a single buried coin or part of a hoard found in a structure, box or vase, for example).

Another determinant is how the coin is treated after discovery. Many higher value coins, especially tetradrachm, saw relatively little circulation, when compared to lower value silver coins, such as obols and bronze coins, which were generally used more widely in every day transactions. As a result, hoards of tetradrachms are discovered where the majority of coins are generally in excellent condition. These coins are often cleaned (sometimes even polished) down to the original metal, slabbed and sold at healthy, promoted markups.

This coin that I purchased earlier this year, is in a NGC slab, has been cleaned down to the original surface:



Other coins do exhibit the deposits of centuries of burial: horn silver, mineralization from the soil, including oxides of copper, along with compacted soil and obvious corrosion, often all mixed together. Often these deposits are quite thick, and they can mask corrosion beneath. Burial causes surfaces to oxidize to the point where the metal changes chemically and elements of the devices and legend are replaced from silver or bronze to acanthite (for silver), or malachite, azurite or cuprite (for bronze). These coins are often best left as is, unless the deposits are so thick that a conservative cleaning is called for.

Here's a coin that has been left more or less"as-is", although it has been lightly cleaned:




Often, as well, ancients are tooled to enhance appearance, usually by smoothing the fields and sometimes even re-engraving features of the designs to emphasis contrast, especially with features of hair, feathers and other fine details. This seems to have been a more common practice in the past, but it does exist even to this day.

 

One other thought occurs to me. You need to start cataloging your coins straight away. Keep as much information in your catalog as possible, including things like price paid, seller information, dates of acquisitions and just about anything else you can think of regarding each and every coin. You will need the information at some point.