How was it Done???

As an wildlife artist that does some fairly detailed artwork, much with the aid of computers, photoshop, photo model scrap, a steady hand and in the end the ability to reduce in size my creation digitally for the final product... However I could never imagine being able to create a detailed portrait of an Emperor or the intricate reverse images all fit on a 15 millimeter or even smaller coin surface...???

The kinds of questions I think about is what process these artists of ancient coins used to create realistic same size images for coin use of these times???? As we all know someone had to do the first die of any coin that is seen today...!

Below are just a few of the personal examples that I can study in hand and find fascinating to pick apart & ponder ---- How it was done?

 

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I once raised this question on another thread, and asked what kind of magnification techniques were available at the time -- water? crystal? I don't think anyone had an answer.

 

The die engravers were probably nearsighted, working with the dies very close to their eyes.

 

Perhaps this link might help, Lawrence University -

https://www2.lawrence.edu/dept/art/BUERGER/ESSAYS/PRODUCTION6.HTML

 

Check out this 4 minute video showing how gems were carved. Coins used similar techniques.

 

Did ancient Celators use magnifying lenses ? was an interesting article in The Celator of November 1997. Here's the link :

http://community.vcoins.com/celator-vol-11-no-11/

Also this interesting wikipedia page :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_optics

I like the discovery in Pompeii of a magnifying lens in the "house of the Engraver".

 

I think there are a lot of things that people can’t do NOW, but were normal back then.

Very few people today carve statues or gems without electric power tools. So, it’s almost inconceivable that the ancients could so something 2000 years ago that we “can’t” do today.

In more of an ancient theme, imperial porphyry was an extremely hard purple stone that was worth more than its weight in gold, and was often sculpted into sarcophagi and statues at the orders of the emperor. By the late empire, the knowledge on how to carve porphyry was entirely lost, and people began to wonder about the “magical power” of their predecessors who COULD carve it.

Nobody knows how they used to do it, but they did.

 

I might suggest you search “Tetartemorion” in our threads... 4mm to 6mm coins.

 

Reading your post I just saw "imperial porphyry worth more than Gold" I have
never heard of this gem, I wonder what is its present name and what value does it have compared to gold today???

 

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=imperial+porphyry&iie=1

 

Here's another discourse on ancient lenses.

It seems that the engravers of dies in these times must have had a magnifying lens or lenses of varying power to create the fine, precise detail, including extremely small, fine characters.

http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/optics.htm

 

Interesting thread and enlightening links. Thanks!

Some loose thoughts by someone who doesn't have an answer:
'
-we only see coins from the dies that 'made it'. Nobody knows how many failures were molten or reworked before a die was made that was considered 'good enough'.

- if you carved a die of, say, Alexander you didn't carve just one, you carved the same portrait hundreds of times in a single year. I suppose you get the hang of it after a while and can do it almost blindly, with or without optical aids...
Experience and practice.

- some dies were made quite clumsily with almost grotesque looking features as a result. I find it hard to believe that optical aids were used there.
We've all got one or two...I do

Here's mine: Seleukos Kallinikos tetradrachm. Quite all right, until you look at Apollo's hands and feet...




Seleukos II Kallinikos. 246-225 BC. Tetradrachm 27 mm. 16.80 gr.
Seleukeia ad Tigrim.

 

Imperial Porphyry is a special sort of granite-like stone that is deep purple in color. It is found ONLY in ONE specific quarry somewhere in Egypt. Porphyry is Greek for "purple," and is associated with royal purple.

There are various types of porphyry that aren't as valuable: red and green come to mind. Napoleon's sarcophagus is made of red porphyry, which is expensive but not incredibly expensive like the imperial variety.

In the glory days of Rome, it was hard to truly put a price on porphyry. Some sources say it was worth more than its weight in gold. But, the real benefit of the stuff was that, beyond wearing imperial regalia or being rich, it showed that you TRULY had control - enough control to direct the quarrying and importation of a special Egyptian stone.

Over the years, the technology and knowledge to carve porphyry declined, and then was lost altogether.
We can see the decline illustrated here:

4th century porphyry Apollo Citharoedus. Heavily restored in 18th century.


1st AD "Nero's Bathtub." This is the largest single piece of imperial porphyry in existence, and is said to be worth up to 2 BILLION USD.


4th AD "Tetrarchs." Formerly mounted on columns in the Philadelphion, now in a corner wall of St. Mark's Cathedral in Venice, along with some spoliated Roman architectural decoration.


The Tetrarchs were probably among the last large-scale porphyry statues ever produced. The fine detail and execution of the earlier pieces was impossible, and the quality declined steadily.

After the fall of the Western empire, the only porphyry that was at all attainable was only the existing stock - imperial statues and busts, columns, and architectural decoration. Many of these items were used as "spolia" and inserted into walls, floors, pretty much anywhere they could be placed. By medieval times, the technology had declined so dramatically that they couldn't even recarve old statues - they resorted to sawing columns into small slices that could be used to decorate floors and walls.

A sad (possibly anecdotal) story is that the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI, was crowned standing on a tiny, 1-2 foot square piece of imperial porphyry. The idea was that by standing on that piece of stone, somehow the glory and magic of the Old Rome could channel into this last emperor of the New Rome.

By the 18th century, the technology to effectively carve porphyry was rediscovered. This was good and bad. The good was that the tech came back. The bad was that countless ancient Roman statues were mutilated and recarved into more modern styles. Remember - the quarry location was lost so the ONLY source of porphyry was already-extant statuary.


18th AD bust of a Medici. Marble torso and porphyry head, recarved from ancient.


In addition, the quarry location was also lost to time until only very recently - now the entire mountain is a protected area. In other words, there is NO more imperial porphyry being produced now. So you can basically never get your hands on any porphyry ever again.

2000 years ago, as now, Imperial Porphyry was a substance with a value that transcended simple monetary worth - it was a true expression of power and wealth.

 

The hands and feet remind me of some of the paintings at https://uglyrenaissancebabies.tumblr.com/ . Quite hilarious.

 

What's the point of being so snarky?

 

I get your point.
Still, I'd happily trade my Apollo for the Rembrandt...

 

Sometimes I’m snarky, sometimes I spend half an hour writing an essay on imperial porphyry

 

Quite an educational comment, this gave me knowledge that I had never heard about before, seeing the photos is what drove the ideas of this type of stone home, simply gorgeous, I have never seen the like before...!!

 

It’s quite an interesting topic with wider ranging cultural and societal implications.

Plus, it’s beautiful...

 

The thought of it being reworked down through the ages, not to mention all of the wars, barbarian invasions, and roman elite jealousy...