and heres the last few I photographed. obverse: reverse: ID left to right: 1. Not sure. Im guessing a variant of 105? 2,3: (these two have a special place in my heart as these were the first ancients I got back in 2015). These two seem like #346. Qarlughud, Qarlugh 1224-49AD. 4. #234 resembles this type woth the "sultan" script to the right of the horse. while the reverse resembles #234. 5. another #199. Yildiz, 1206-1215AD
Thanks for showing your nice collection. You have the big advantage to most of us by living close to the source of these. I do not immediately recognize the first specimen of your last five. Could be Ghaznavid fraction with last line on the obverse starting with "Abu ..."?
That’s a lovely coin Doug – is it yours? These early heavy jitals were known almost exclusively from a small group in the BM. Over the years I think only two ever came my way - and I looked at a lot of Shahi jitals. (I think I found three Bhimas [T.11] - tells you how rare these T.1 - 2 things are.) Am not sure it I mentioned this before – but at 4.24g this is a Hindu coin that seems to be spot on for the weight of the Islamic mithcal. Now - analysis of later Shahi Jitals shows them about 70% pure silver. But to my knowledge, nobody ever tested the early heavy issues. The reason I think this fact is important is that after about 850 AD or so, a new definition of the Islamic dirhem emerged as being 7/10 mithcal (c. 2.97g). Now if these coins are a 70% fine mithcal, that would make them intrinsically a sort of dirhem. That finding would tell us a lot: Firstly it would help give us a date for the first jital issues, a matter that still seems obscure. Secondly, we already seem to know that the European silver penny to the west was apparently crucially inspired in important ways by the Islamic dirhem. So, it would be very interesting if to the East the reviving early medieval coinage was also crucially inspired in important ways by the Islamic dirhem. Rob T
On a general note, back when we were writing “Jitals” (meaning of the term defined at the beginning of our account) I intended it as a platform for the independent investigation of the cultural politics of monetary policy in Medieval Afghanistan and N. West India. Broadly, the collapse of the canonical Islamic/Persian monetary model over 800 – 1000 AD left the Ghaznavids more and more integrating with developing fiat Hindu policies. Thus the monetary events encompassed by the jitals, especially in Afghanistan, served as a kind of distant mirror for the demise of the European penny over the same sort of period. 30 years on and I sadly feel the numismatic world kind of passed me by - going in the opposite direction. Independent numismatics as a whole was and is retreating altogether from tackling the difficult and important problems. Rob T
Yes, it came from a European eBay seller a few years ago and is the only one I have. Most of my B&H jitals came out of a bag of a couple hundred 'your choice $5' a couple decades ago. There were two Tye 3 and some decent later but still silver looking coins so I got a dozen even though I knew nothing about them. I spent more on your book and Deyall than I spent on the coins up to that time but never found enough new ones to me to keep up interest. I never updated my page to add the heavy one so it still reads that I have none to show. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/bh.html It bothered me I had no heavy coin enough that I bought from an eBay seller I did not know.
I think that for many people interested in the cointype your website has been an important beacon Doug ! When i expressed a special interest in Jitals to an international coin dealer in the past i have even been asked if i perhaps was Doug ? To keep up the illustration of this thread another rare variant:
Hilarious! Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately we never know what total effect, good or bad, we have from what we write, do and say. All we can do is hope we brought someone to the subject who will add to the knowledge base rather than just drive up the price. When I bought my $5 jitals, Rob's book was new enough that many collectors had not heard of Jitals. I hope my page caused at least one person to buy his books (I was also a fan of his more basic one on Early World Coins. I don't know if they are still available hardcopy. https://www.academia.edu/3401823/Early_World_Coins_and_Early_Weight_Standards It has been a long time since I have seen a $5 pickout pot at a coin show that contained anything as interesting as these coins.
I found a few more Jitals here. These are labeled as Kangra Rajas, AE Jital, 1st one Apurva Chandra Deva, 2nd one Triloka Chandra, c. 1200-1300 AD
Nice Kangra specimen ! The order is actually the other way around The upper one is Triloka Chandra, the lower one Apurva. Adding another Apurva, attributable based on the symbol on the bull's side.
A while back now, but many thanks Doug. Most kind. Key parts of both books are available free on the web Thus the type catalogue of Jitals you can see free here: https://www.academia.edu/356700/Jitals The coin weight standards section of Early World Coins has already gone into a second edition, available on the web (only) here: https://www.academia.edu/6882687/Coin_Weight_and_Historical_Metrology Discussion that may lead to a third edition is currently going on here, (but its getting a bit complicated, so, caveat emptor…...) https://www.academia.edu/s/699a4bd517 Meanwhile, I hope I am not bending the rules if I mention I will put a one time message about hard copies in the adverts section. (It will be a long while before I venture near a Post Office anyhow) Rob T
Somehow I missed this thread before today! I have several jitals and I love them all, I think they're a fun coin series that could make a really cool comprehensive set someday for a reasonable price. Shahi Dynasty Circa 850-1000 CE AR Drachm "Samanta Deva" Ref: Tye#14 Tomara Dynasty 1105-1130 CE AE Jital Issued under Mahi Pala Ref: Tye#39 Two AE 2 Ghani jitals from Delhi Sultanate 1266-1287 CE Issued under Ghiyas ud din Balban Ref: Tye#409 Anonymous Post-Shahi India Circa 900-1200 CE AE Jital; 3.34g "Sri Samanta Deva" Ref: Tye#33 Two AE Jitals from the Ghurid Dynasty 1206-1215 CE Issued under Tay al-Din Yildiz Kurraman Mint Tye#200 Lastly, a small example that I've been unable to identify exactly. It seems clearly copper but some things such as the three dots in the horse leg connecting at the top, as if dangling, are unique to silver issues it appears from Tye. I'd appreciate any help with this. I am away from this piece unfortunately but think it is around 12-15mm, noticeably smaller than other jitals.
Nice collection already TuckHard ! The last one i'd call a Tye#33var. There are many more variants than could be shown in the catalog. Here another type with similar dangling dots on the horse:
This just made me look at my own Tye#33 and I noticed the dangling dots! I should be a bit more observant sometimes. What Tye# is that one? That style is incredible.
Sorry, should have added attribution. It's in the name of Muhammad bin Sam, an early version of Tye#187.
@Muhammad Niazi. thanks for a view of your collection. Even lacking basic knowledge of these coins it is interesting to see the variety. Here's my one and only unidentified Jital. I think it came with a batch of uncleaned coins, years ago. 3.5g, and 12.5mm.
Hello! Yes I got busy in a job and shifted my attention towards minerals and artifacts for the time. Also did a restoration on a lovely statue of Hariti. Its nice to see this thread come back to life, in my newest jital additions theres only one coin: Nasrid Dynasty: Taj al-Din III Harb ibn Muhammad ibn Nasr, 1169–1213 AD, Sistan Mint, billion metal, Jital denomination coin. Obverse: Taj/Harb Bin Muhammad/ud-din Reverse:Muhammad/Rasul Allah/ al-Nasir ud-din/Muhammad.