Twice the owls, double the fun!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by ValiantKnight, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight Well-Known Member

    I'm not a full-time collector of Athenian coinage, but I won't say no to one if I can help it. So, given how popular Athens is, I figured this little bronze was a good buy at about $15. For me its always interesting to see an Athenian coin that isn't a tetradrachm (which I happen to have). From my searches there seems to be two bronze types of this double owl reverse: an early 4th century BC type with a better bust style, and a later one (my coin) from the mid-2nd century to mid 1st century BC (around the time Athens had fallen under Roman control).

    Attica, Athens
    AE15
    Obv: Helmeted bust of Athena right
    Rev: Two owls facing on thunderbolt, AΘE below, all within olive wreath
    Date: 130-90 BC/166-57 BC
    Ref: Kroll Agora 99; Svoronos pl. 24.60-68; Kleiner Type 16 (from Wildwinds.com)

    owls.jpg

    Instead of the usual tetradrachms, lets see the bronze (including provincials) and the fractional silver of Athens!
     
    Orielensis, ambr0zie, TIF and 31 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I have shown mine before - at least the ones I like best - but since you asked, here are ten Athenian minors.

    First are the obols. They are most common after the tetradrachms and come in a wide variety of styles from different time periods. I really need to study up on the dating of these. The first is my oldest from the three separate tail feather period. I bought it from NFA which is a dealer I really miss. Most of their patrons wanted mint state dekadrachms so you could get a deal on the lesser coins in their sales even when they were rarities. 0.7g The coins with weights only in tenths date back to when I only had a scale that did one decimal place. I really should reweigh them all.
    g41220fd0461a.jpg

    Second is my obol which my imagination believes shows teeth marks from being bitten while carried in a mouth. OK, maybe it is just a dent but it looks like someone bit it on Athena's cheek. I need a better photo. When will I find time with so much nothing to do? 0.6g
    g41210b01380lg.jpg

    I always liked the face on this one. 0.6g
    g41180bb0229.jpg

    Also ran obol:
    0.6g
    g41200bb0460.jpg

    A hemiobol is distinguished only by weight but they are a lot harder to find. 0.35g
    g41240bb2400.jpg
    Other denominations are harder to find. At 1.98g, this triobol is a worn down fatcat but about 3x the normal obol. g41305bb2669.jpg
    The tritartemorion weighs 0.5g and shows one crescent for each 1/4 obol of its value. This coin came from the same NFA sale that brought me the three feather obol. That was a good sale for me.
    g41310bb0462.jpg
    The single crescent denotes a 1/4 obol. I have seen these with at least some of the face but I was not about to pass up this one. It is almost all crest (not to be confused with 'full crest').
    g41315bb3200.jpg

    My two owl bronze should be 15mm but was struck on a 12mm flan weighing 3.0g. Don't you hate it when one of your owls gets pushy and shoves the other off the flan? Svoronos illustrates 34 of these but did not bother to weigh the bronzes so I have no idea what it should weigh. The few I have seen suggest this is about right.
    g41350bb1156.jpg
    Tenth of my allowable dose for this thread is my only other Athenian bronze. It shows Zeus hurling a thunderbolt and has something behind him which is not obvoius to me. The dealer I bought it from called it wheat. I don't see it but I dont ahave a better answer either. Svoronos had three of them (81, 49-51) but did not bother to tell anything except which museum had the coin. My AE19 weighs 6.0g or double the two owls but this type is considerably later so I don't know if this is a dichalkon to the owls' chalkon or not. I really get the impression that most dealers and scholars would rather study dekadrachms. I wish they would send me a bag full of Athenian bronzes on 'long term' loan.
    g41340bb0454.jpg
     
    Hrefn, Cucumbor, ambr0zie and 24 others like this.
  4. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Here's an imitation drachm, possibly Arabian, that I purchased post-auction last year.

    Arabia(?), uncertain mint AR Drachm. Circa 4th-2nd century BC. Imitating Athens. Head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet; symbol (mark of value?) on cheek / Owl standing three-quarters right, head facing, olive sprig and crescent moon behind; AΘ[E] to right. Unpublished in the standard references; for another drachm with this obv. symbol, cf. CNG 109, 364 (Arabia, Kingdom of Lihyan), CNG 112, 348 (same) & Roma e61, 365 (Arabia, uncertain). 3.76g, 18mm, 9h.

    Good Very Fine. Very Crude. Extremely Rare.

    Aramaic symbol of cheek? (Still researching. It's not Aramaic as far as I can tell.)

    Imitation Attica Drachm, Possibly Arabia, Roma E-Sale 63.jpg
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Alegandron and 14 others like this.
  5. Carl Wilmont

    Carl Wilmont Well-Known Member

    Obol. 9 mm, 0.75 g. Circa 454-404 BC

    Athens Obol.jpg
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Limes and 10 others like this.
  6. Collect89

    Collect89 Coin Collector

    A group of owls is a "parliament" so your new coin has a parliament of owls on the reverse. Very cool indeed. Here is a fractional silver parliament. :)
    (including tet, tet, drachm, obol, & hemiobol).
    Athens Owls Collage (1).jpg
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Alegandron and 15 others like this.
  7. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Admit it VK, once you go Greek you can’t go back :D
    CA10E8A8-0A22-4434-B9D0-DD7F8A547CD1.jpeg
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Alegandron and 8 others like this.
  8. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    My favorite time and place! The heart of Greece when it was controlled by Rome. Nice double owl VK.
    AtticaAthens.jpg Achaea. Attica, Athens. AE22
    Obv: Bust of Athena r. wearing crested Corinthian helmet and aegis.
    Rev: AΘH NA IΩN Bucranium bound by wreath.
    Time of Hadrian and the Antonines.

    normal_athens.jpg Achaea. Attica, Athens. AE22
    Obv: Draped bust of Athena right, wearing crested Corinthian helmet.
    Rev: AΘHNAIΩN, Athena standing facing, head left, holding spear in right hand and shield in left.

    athensTript.jpg Achaea. Attica, Athens. AE22. Triptolemos
    Obv: Bust of Athena l. wearing crested Corinthian helmet and aegis.
    Rev: AΘH NA IΩN / Triptolemos standing in biga drawn by winged serpents, l.
    Time of Hadrian and the Antonines.

    Greek.
    athensBC87.jpg Attica, Athens. 87/86 BC. AE18.
    Obv: Head of Athena, wearing Corinthian helmet.
    Rev: Zeus standing, hurling thunderbolt; star between crescents to right.
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Alegandron and 10 others like this.
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    These come in a series of denominations as indicated on the cheek. g72045fd3363.jpg
    Mine is a quarter unit weighing 1.28g marked with an X.
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=365259
    References say the letters are Sabaean (yours D, mine T). The D coins weigh less than the unit but are right for an Athenian drachm. To me, this suggests it was a trade coin. There are quite a few on acsearch.
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...s=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Carl Wilmont and 9 others like this.
  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the reference. I bookmarked the page.
     
  11. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight Well-Known Member

    Great coins everyone, thanks for sharing!

    I'll never not think of a bunch of owls in a parliament house debating and arguing over laws when I hear that phrase :D I can only imagine all the feathers flying!

    Appreciate the information, weights, and photos of the different types. Thanks Doug!

    I'm still Greek after several years so you are definitely right about that! :D
     
    ambr0zie likes this.
  12. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Lots of great owls here.

    My two owls!
    8E1E3FF6-FEFF-4CC0-86C4-9B78110CE135.jpeg
    D41FAF5A-15C1-4FB5-8B5C-82F8592D0BF0.jpeg
     
    Hrefn, ambr0zie, TIF and 11 others like this.
  13. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    Because I haven't posted it in a while, my pair of gold owls (with the full description in my thread here) - it was minted from melted down statues of the goddess of Victory that were placed in the Parthenon in ancient Athens.

    When Sparta cut off Athens' access to its silver mines during the Peloponnesian War, they had to resort to melting whatever they could find, including seven of eight cherished gold sculptures, in order to raise funds to rebuild their navy. It ultimately was a futile effort but it was such an emotional event, it was documented by playwrights and recorded in the treasury records.

    AthensAV.jpg
     
    Orielensis, ambr0zie, TIF and 17 others like this.
  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Absolutely breathtaking.
     
    ambr0zie likes this.
  15. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

    Not a looker and I will spare you the Obverse as it requires imagination, it is bronze though.
    It came in a large group of Provincials purchased many moons ago.

    Attica, Athens, 2 Owls, 1 head
    11mm, 2.11g
    IMG_5453.JPG
     
  16. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Kroll, John H., Walker, Alan S. “The Greek Coins”- The Athenian Agora .The American Journal of Classical Studies at Athens. Vol. 26 The Greek coins 1993
    A fascinating disquisition on coin finds from the Agora. For the Rome-Pontic times the AE section 3 gives dates for the “Two Pilloi” and the “Star between Two Crescents” types. Comments are very interesting about the lead composition of the Mithradatic bronze and that this is a common coinage. I have noted this.
    There are other discussions on the possible linkage of some of the probably post-Mithradatic AE Athena/Owl on Amphora with some corresponding silver New Style issues and their dating and sequencing and the cessation of the New Style. This paper contains so much and is easily overlooked but should not be.

    AVAILABLE ON Jstor NOW!

    Culled from my Sources on New Style research on academia.edu
     
  17. Ricardo123

    Ricardo123 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the thread. I want one day a owl, better if i can get for 15$!
     
    ambr0zie likes this.
  18. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Interesting thread @ValiantKnight . It is always good to see a few owls. I have a pair, on one coin.
    Athens two owl bronze NN 3.5.17.jpg
    ATTICA. Athens. Ae (Circa 322/17-307 BC).
    Obv: Helmeted head of Athena right.
    Rev: AΘE. Two owls standing facing one another, heads facing; all within wreath.
    Good fine.
    Weight: 3.60 g.
    Diameter: 13 mm.


    If you look online you can find one, but you may need to go a bit above $15. If you include postage from almost anywhere $15 is saying you want the coin for free. I found several below in MA Shops and one on www.fsrcoin.com/barg.htm

    Unfortunately searching on MA Shops is addictive. I found an owl at a good price and bought it. Now it will be interesting how long I wait for shipment from Germany to Texas.
    Pergamon Owl MAShops. saeen 4.8.20.jpg
    Bronze 200-100 BC Mysien Pergamon
    Obv - Helmeted head of Athena to right.
    Rev - AΘHNAΣ - NIKHΦOPOY Owl standing facing on palm frond; monograms to left and right.
    Grade: VF
    The coin looks reasonably centered and was not worn much, but cleaning left lots of scratches. I would have rathered someone left the desert patina.
    3.70 grams
    16 mm
     
    ambr0zie, TIF, Alegandron and 8 others like this.
  19. ma-shops

    ma-shops Well-Known Member

  20. Only a Poor Old Man

    Only a Poor Old Man Well-Known Member

    Simply epic!
    Thanks to this thread I discovered yours and TIF's websites and let me tell you your collections would make most museums jealous! Browsing through them is the perfect way to spend the time while being in lockdown!
     
    TIF and AncientJoe like this.
  21. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    This letter is not Aramaic, it is the Dadanitic letter Ḏal (= Arabic ذ ). This letter exists only in the Dadanitic script that is used on inscriptions from the al Ula region (Dedan, Mada'in Salih). I think it must be a mark of value because only drachms have this Ḏ on Athena's cheek, while tetradrachms have a crescent. Your coin is very rare ! Congrats.
    Ḏ corpus dadanitic inscr p422 D045.jpg
     
    ambr0zie and robinjojo like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page