Athenian or Imitative Tetradrachm?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Here's a coin purchased back in 2017 from VCoins.

    It was listed as an Athenian tetradrachm from the period of 353-294 BCE, and the obverse certainly suggests that could be the case. However, the owl on the reverse indicates that the coin could be an imitation. Stylistically the owl is quite different when compared to other examples of the period, particularly in the treatment of the beak and the feathers of the head.

    The coin weighs 16.66 grams and is 23 mm in diameter.

    Grade: Good VF, nicely centered

    What do you think? I'm leaning towards imitation.

    Thanks

    Imitation Attica Tetradrachm, vcoins purchase.jpg
     
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    While I admittedly know next to nothing about these and have only viewed them from afar, yours does look different than others I have seen. I am interested in seeing what those who know have to say.
     
  4. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    The style does suggest an imitation, especially concerning the owl. But it's an imitation of the pi-style folded-flan restrikes, so one way or another it would date to after 350 BC. I'm not at all an expert at discerning the difference between imitative styles on Athenian tets, but there's something slightly Eastern about it. (How's that for vague?)
     
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  5. tenbobbit

    tenbobbit Well-Known Member

  6. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I see where everyone is coming from, but, to my eye, the OP coin looks like a "transitional pi style," as they call it at the link (specifically pi-3).
     
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  7. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Or perhaps pi-4? The central tendril is fairly long, longer than pi-3.

    However, the flan does not show signs of having been folded. Is that a requirement for coins of this period?
     
  8. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    I think your owl looks like the standard "pi" owl, from 353-294 BC. The beak and head feathers do not differ too much from those during the period.

    While I don't have specific webpages for direct comparison at this moment, I would refer to an old CT thread. It shows a few of these "pi" owls. Their beak and feathers look quite similar to yours. Just my thoughts.

    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/what-do-yall-know-about-intermediate-style-owls.336568/
     
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  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I bookmarked the thread.

    I think you're right. The obverse is really too nice for the coin to be an imitation, although some imitations are almost as well done. The owl is also in keeping with the period.
     
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  10. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    The obverse of your coin is very nice for sure. Way better than most on the market.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    Paul M. likes this.
  11. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Here is my transitional just for the mix.....

    Athens, AR Tetradrachm
    Obv:– Head of Athena right with eye seen in true profile, wearing crested helmet ornamented with three olive leaves and floral scroll
    Rev:– owl standing right, head facing, to right ATE in large lettering, to left olive sprig and crescent
    Minted in Athens c. B.C. 393 - 370.
    Reference:– Flamen p. 126, 1 (Pi I); Svoronos Athens plate 19, 17; SNG Cop -
    Ex-Forum Ancient Coins
    16.699g, 24.31mm, 270o

    The following information was provide by Forum with the coin:-

    "Transitional style tetradrachms include all of the wide spectrum of variants with the eye in profile issued after the classic "old style" almond eye tetradrachms but before the broad thinner flan "new style" tetradrachms. Recent research has classified variations of the transitional style - Pi Type, Quadridigité Style, Heterogeneous Style and sub-groups of the styles, and proposed chronologies for the different styles and groups.

    This coin is the earliest transitional type, the first Pi style type, essentially identical to the "old style" with the exception of the eye in profile. The "Pi" designation is based on the P shape of the floral spiral and palmette ornamentation on the helmet bowl. The coin can be classified as Pi style, group 1. The floral ornament on examples this early do not yet resemble Pi."


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    What is it, a 'folded flan' in this type of coin?
     
  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

  14. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    This is an absolutely spectacular coin.

    I realize I forgot to post this on my previous reply. Here is the reverse of my transitional tet. This coin is devilishly difficult to photograph well, due to its solid, glossy black patina. This image is not mine, but was taken by one of the best in the business (Todd Pollock). It gives me comfort that even he couldn't get a shot that captured the details well without way, way overexposing it; the coin in hand is much darker than the image -- totally jet black, and gorgeous.

    transitional_tetradrachm_reverse-removebg-preview.png

    I think the style of mine is more typical, but yours doesn't bother me, @robinjojo. I think it's a great coin. If I were ever looking for another transitional and that coin were for sale, I would definitely consider owning it.

    BTW, on the relatively few imitations I've seen online, IIRC, all are listed as "Arabian," and all or most of them have some kind of mark / tattoo / what have you on Athena's cheek. Her features are also notably different. Your Athena seems Athenian to me.
     
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