Spotting on 20 dollar gold.

Has anyone had any luck removing copper spots from large coins such as double eagles? I have heard that if you're carful and don't clean too harshly that the third party graders may notice but not body bag the coin. Apparently they all have limits to the amount of alteration they will tolerate and still slab the coin. I just purchased some PCGS and NGC saints at a discount because they have copper spotting. I'm wondering if I crack them out and treat the spots and resumit them I may get the same grade. I know there will probably be a lot of controversy with this question.

 

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spotting.....................

........the spotting may be covered by the guarantee, i'd contact them and see what they can do.

 

wont a commerical dip work for this? especially if its just toning ont he copper thats causing the spots

OP dont even think about cracking the slab and treating the coins you are playing with fire

 

Let me be sure I understand, You purchased the slabbed coins with the spots. I assume there is a notation or something on the label you wish to eliminate by cracking, dipping, and then resubmitting. If so, then re-sell in the sight unseen venue. If not, I don't grasp why you would take the chance of doing this?

Theoretically,

A dip would affect the silver, but have no affect on the gold. The dip could dissolved enough silver metal in the process of removing the toning to produce microscopic pits visible in the gold matrix. If the toning was deep,corresponding deep pits could occur. If you can see the spotting by eye or 10X, you will see the same size pits. If the spotting was light, a very diluted dip could be use to at least lighten the spots, but they would have the fake copper coloration that occurs after dipping copper. If they are slabbed don't mess with them,,if they are in bodybags currently, then it may not matter.

Jim

 

Tampering with the coin in any way will assure that it will be bodybagged. The copper spots may be caused by the copper in the coin oxidizing. This is perfectly normal. If you are really concerned about the appearance, you can try sending it to NCS. Since they are already slabbed, TPGs generally will work with the buyer if the damage happened after the coin was slabbed.

 

Copper spots on gold are considered to be a sign of authenticity and originality

I agree with the above statement but it obvious the gold coins with spotting are considered problem coins and sell for a discount. Here are the links to the two coins I purchased from Heritage. On the first coin I think the obversee is ok but the reverse looks horrible in my opinion. The picures are much more clear if you scroll down to the second set and click on the pics of the coin in the slab http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1116&Lot_No=4474

I actually like the below coin but am concerned if I were to resell it than it would be considered a spotted coin

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1116&Lot_No=4475

As far as the PCGS guaranty, I think that only applies if a coins has been overgraded. I think think that from a mechanical standpoint of grading they would just agree that both coins are MS65 and were graded correctly. They probably graded the coins with the spots on them as well as these are fairly new holders. Any opinions on how these coins compare for MS65 coins? I think they are right on when it comes to luster and hits but the spotting concerns me as far as resale goes.

 

People have been trying for decades to clean a coin and remain undetected or under the radar of qualified coin graders. You just cannot do it. Anybody that knows grading coins especially someone who works for a grading company will know. They will also be able to tell you which brand cleaner you used. Lol. Yup . . . they will know.

 

you do know that lightly cleaned and dipped coins get graded all day long dont you

 

why would you buy a coin that looks horrible to you?

 

Being a newbie on gold coins.......

I think I read somewhere that gold doesn't tone.

Are the copper spots because the coin has some copper mixed in with it?

As far as gold goes, I primarily purchase gold proofs from the US mint, Ithink they have a little copper and silver in their composition. Are the proofs (which have copper and silver mixed in) subject to spotting more than a gold bullion coin?

 

I don't think they look "horrible." I may have exaggerated a little bit. The reason I purchased them was because non-spotted 1922 PCGS MS65 saints were selling for hundreds more. I do not think the spotting is really that bad. I just wanted some opinions on whether or not the spots could be made a little less obvious by cracking them out, dipping them to make the spots a little less obvious while at the same time "attempting" to keep them original enough to keep them from being body bagged. I said "attempting" because I know it's a risk. Anytime a coin is cracked out there is a risk of bodybagging even if the coin is not altered. Perhaps there is some previous alteration that went unnoticed before or maybe there is an alteration that was at the borderline for bodybaging to begin with. What does everyone think of the below two coins? I really don't think they look that bad for MS65 coins.

 

HarryJ,

Gold does not combine chemically with the copper or silver, they stay separate chemically. If it is a good job of mixing, the non-gold material would be as small as possible and very evenly distributed in the gold matrix, even to the level of not being discernable even with strong magnification. Such gold coins appear to tone slightly over a long period of time if at all, not having visible spots of color, but overall. Some use to call this "old gold" color. Bullion gold @ .999 purity should not have this problem unless a bad mix is produced.

Jim

 

Thanks Jim!

 

Jim,

What do you think of the two saints below. The links go to some pretty high-quality pictures. I'm new to collecting and was wondering if they would be considered spotted or problem coins.

thanks,

 

Another great post from desert gem. I am going to guess from that post that you have some experience in metallurgy, even if only in college. Want to see a coin with a bad mix. Every time I post this coin, it brings out very strong emotions from both sides. Personally, I love it and don't care about the originality of the toning. I wish I had purchased it when I had the chance.



:kewl:

 

I love the toning on that coin. I can see how some may prefer no toning but if there is toning on a coin I certainly would say that most would say it was a nice toning versus a bad toning. I was looking at the pic and trying to guess the grade. I would say MS64?

 

If I recall correctly, it was a PCGS MS65 OGH

 

Pure Gold doesnt tone

Gold coins tone

Why? because the gold coins ( circulating ones) were only 90% pure the impurities toned. take a look at any catalog from any auction house or go on ebay you will find a lot of toned gold coins green pink etc.

 

i cant stand color on gold coins ill pretend i never saw this picture. the coin is nice though