I do own a Trade Dollar, so was tempted to vote for one. However, I like Morgan, with Peace a close second. Do you suppose anyone will vote for SBA?!
Whenever you grace Liberty or sometype of her design on coins, they will ALWAYS be favorites. SBA probably has the ugliest mug-shot of any obverse. She has a look of "ready to rip the husband" for ______ (fill in your own reason to b--ch). SAC's have a great reverse, but not too many want to see a teenager carrying her kid for an obverse dollar coin. Ahhhhh...but characters (real or not) that depict Liberty. We just can't get enough and they will ALWAYS be favorites...ALWAYS!
But, Ed... more people, so far, have voted for Eisenhower (a President) than the Peace Dollar, the Trade Dollar, the Seated Liberty Dollar, the Draped Bust Dollar, the Flowing Hair Dollar and the Gold Liberty Dollar (all depicting Liberty). HMMMMMM...
... and might I add: Although the SBA Dollar, in my opinion, is not one of the most beautifully designed coins in the history of the U.S., it does depict Susan B. Anthony, the pioneer of the women's suffrage movement which, in itself, is one of the greatest depictions of "LIBERTY" I can think of. So, could it be said that "LIBERTY" (or the representation thereof) is simply in the eye of the beholder?
Your right...ugly woman need loving too! I look at a SBA, think of it as a quarter, and can't help but wonder why did the mint put the Wicked Witch fom the Wizard of Oz on a coin?...and people wonder why it failed so miserably?? BTW...with 20 votes cast, 16 have voted for a coin with some depiction of Liberty on the Obverse (can you say 80%?). Morgans almost have half of the vote and have more votes than non-Liberty obverses combined.
I'll reiterate: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Personally, I think the SBA Dollar is more eye-catching than the abysmal 1793 Flowing Hair Dollar with her "bug eyes" and wild, Bride-of-Frankenstein-esque hair: ... but, to each his own. Also, I'd rather see someone like Susan B. Anthony depicted on a coin (for reasons stated in my previous post) than the oh-so-boring Seated Liberty designs, the yawn-inducing Barber series or the scare-young-children Peace Dollar design. Morgan Dollars were not always popular. When they first arrived on the scene, you couldn't give the things away. They languished, unloved, in bank vaults until people realized their value and then greed set in. Morgans have since become a popular series, but not based simply on their design.
"I'll reiterate: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Personally, I think the SBA Dollar is more eye-catching than the abysmal 1793 Flowing Hair Dollar with her "bug eyes" and wild, Bride-of-Frankenstein-esque hair" We shall see in 100 years what coins they will talking about and for Flowing Hair coin to come out before the turn into the 19th Century, at least our mint had the right idea using Liberty. But your single vote for SBA has been noted. You have to admit, she does looks like Margaret Hamilton's sister, don't you think? Also, I am all for a new Liberty depiction. Something that looks like Cindy Crawford with the hair blowing back in the wind. Tall and beautiful. Something that when I look at coin, I can admire the beauty...not something that makes me shudder and think (what the??)when I look at the mug of SBA. You see what happens when you put real people on coins? Politics...differant ideas of beauty...all come to play when THEY shouldn't.
I don't think our current generation will know what coins they'll talk about in 100 years and to surmise that we can foresee the future is presumptuous. In your opinion. Who says I voted for SBA? Again, you surmise. But, living in a free society, I'm not required to tell you who I voted for. Not at all. I do think that Susan B. Anthony resembles a strong-willed woman who had the courage to stand up to the injustices of our society and try to make certain that "equality" wasn't just for those in power. Beauty is more than skin-deep. I think that Ms. Anthony was trying to justify the "liberty" espoused by the allegorical depictions on the coins you seem to like so well. In that sense, the SBA Dollar is more "beautiful" than any of the depictions of liberty you've referenced. Good. Why don't we model it after the Chinese citizen who had the courage to stand in front of the tank in Tianenmen Square even at the peril of his own life? He was screaming for liberty. I hesitate to even respond to this. So, I won't. Substitute the words "real people" with "depictions of Liberty" and you have an opposing point of view. Your point is noted and I've filed it exactly where it needs to be.
It is like talking to a teenager...or a ACLU lawyer that goes through every word. As it stands, SBA has one vote...she's on a roll! If you want to read why the coin failed, which lead to the SAC, read this: http://www.failuremag.com/arch_history_makingchange.html Also, the mint tried to make her more "pleasant" and "appealing", but they found they could only go so far with what they had...seriously, look it up! But then again, there are a lot of guys that love woman who wear their hair in buns. "But she has a nice personality" {This is too much fun}
To quote the author from the very article you reference: ___________________________________ "Ironically, that was good enough to make it (the SBA Dollar) the most successful dollar in over 200 years of U.S. coinage." ... and "I certainly think that the choice of S.B.A. herself was completely appropriate and in fact a very strong selection." _________________________________________ I understand the reasons that the SBA Dollar failed. No one disputes that it looked too much like a quarter and no one liked the size (also, one of the reason the SAC Dollar is failing). But, based on an artistic point of view, however, your idea of beauty (or lack of it) is not, thankfully, the last word. I've already stated that I didn't think the SBA Dollar was particularly eye-catching. There's certainly some interesting designs that have appeared throughout the years that are, in my opinion. more appealing But, if you want to honor "Liberty" as you're so keen to reinforce, why not do so in a manner more suitable? Does "Liberty" have to have flowing hair, be wrapped in a flag, have poppies in her hair, have a tiara that spells LIBERTY, wear an Indian headdress, have wings on her head, spikes emanating from her crown, carry a pole with a cap on the end of it or carry a shield? No! Let's honor someone who is truly deserving of the title "Liberty". This is really like beating a dead horse, though. You have your proponents who want to go back to an old-fashioned, quaint representation and there are those of us who would rather boldly embrace a more modern, realistic design on our coinage.
You're right...1 vote for the SBA (...go ahead...you can admit it...you voted for her didn't you, but are too embassed to admit it...it's okay to stand by your conviction. People here know I do!) out of 26 already casted is proving my point while your argument is losing any validity. There are alot more people better suited for a dollar coin than SBA, who after all, only fought for the rights of women to vote. It is not like she laid her life on the line (as per our founding fathers with the ultimate act of treason). But, like anything else...we live in a PC world and we have to make everybody happy so we all can hold hands and sing together (in perfect harmony like the old Coke commerical). I don't necessarily want to go back to the old Liberty designs. I and others have suggested there are many ways to depict Lady Liberty as a symbol that represents ALL of America...21st Century Style so to speak. As for all of those symbols that seem to bother you, well...each of those symbols have meaning. If you really look at a Liberty coins, there is more symbolisn about than any other coin in the world! For instance that "pole" she carries comes from this background: "The liberty cap is a soft, felt cap, sometimes hung on a pole and accompanying its (usually female) owner, sometimes capping the owner's head. The meaning behind the cap derives from its use before the Roman Empire, when similar felt caps were worn by liberated slaves of Troy and Asia Minor to cover their shorn heads; the cap therefore once "symbolized emancipation from personal servitude rather than constitutional political liberty". The caps are sometimes referred to by their Latin name, pilleus liberatis, and they became a significant accessory for the French in depictions of the French Revolution. As for the pole, "the cap was joined to the pole as a symbol of freedom when Salturnius conquered Rome in 263 B.C. where, in a burst of inspiration, he raised the cap on a pikestaff to show that the slaves who joined his fight would be freed". Now that is just the pole. If you want, I can explain all of the other symbols in these coins. Start throwing every Tom, Dick, and Harry (the names of the tunnels in the Great Escape movie) on coins and you will create controversy. Throw a mug shot of SBA on a dollar coin that Reagan called the "Carter-Quarter", and guess what...you will have failure written all other it. Lady Liberty or some depiction of her has always been revered and collected. It has past the test of time...and always will! Before you go forward, you need to understand and study the past.
Which is exactly why we put Presidents from the Past on coins. Putting somebody thats not real but stands for liberty, which the presidents do too, doesnt teach us anything.
Which is why the good ones are already on the 1c, 5c, 10c, 25c and 50c coins. If you want to put all of the Presidents on dollar coins, you will lower the standard of this country's coinage. The symbol of Liberty and the symbolism that goes into past designs represents not just one person, but all of this country. You want banana republic 3rd world country coins...you will get them. If you think Fillmore, Harrison, Coolidge, Harding and other below-average Presidents represent Liberty and Freedom better than a symbol that is as old as this country itself...you are sadly misguided. But then again, I shouldn't be surprised...those that wish to lower the standard of who should grace American circulated coins, are already lowering educational and test standards across the board. From dumbing down of SAT tests (so everybody feels good) to students that can bearly read, write, and do basic math, a whole new generation of Americans would rather feel good instead of doing what is right. "Putting all of the Presidents on dollar coins is a nice idea" but, it doesn't have any meat to it...but if it feels good, do it! It sounds nice, but until you can demonstrate that EVERY past President will represent freedom and liberty more so than a symbol that has been around as long as this country...most educated numismatics (about 80%) will not buy it. Only those that have gone through "government' schools feeling good about themselves (because tests are not fair) will be easily swayed into the idea of putting all Presidents (good and bad) on dollar coins. While we are at it...we should put this character on the dollar coin. Just want to give you an idea what 3rd world coins will look like:
I didn't vote for the SBA Dollar, but you're beginning to make me wish I had. I'm new to this forum, but if you haven't already noticed, I also stand by my convictions. But, tell me: Why LIBERTY? Why not JUSTICE? Why not EQUALITY? Why not ENLIGHTENMENT? Why not FREEDOM? These ideals are equally as important as LIBERTY! But, if you must insist on LIBERTY, how about modeling her (or him) after the Iraqis who dared to vote in their recent election under the threat of death? If your justification is that someone lay their life on the line, well, I can think of a few other instances where this holds true. I believe the Iraqis were crying for freedom when they cast their ballots. How about a symbolic representation of that selfless act? Would that be PC enough for you? Or, why not a representation of our men and women fighting in the Armed Forces who die every day defending our right to speak as we are in this forum? I can think of thousands upon thousands who are deserving to have their picture represented on a coin. Or, why not display our deserving Commanders-in-Chief who have led our soldiers defending this country AND LIBERTY, sometimes with their very life? I see nothing wrong with honoring Susan B. Anthony as we have. I believe that many women (and men for that matter) are proud that she had the courage to stand up for her beliefs against the tyranny that was present when she led her crusade. I applaud her and anyone else who stands against tyranny. The allegorical depiction of LIBERTY on a coin is fine, but I'd rather see real men and women depicted on coins. Men and women who fought for our country, led our people, defended our Constitution, crusaded for justice and sometimes shed their blood for the IDEAL of Liberty. Are these people not more deserving? You can depict Charlie Chaplin imitating Adolf Hitler on a coin if you want to. I'd rather not. Grumble on...
