Flans made with a rolling pin before striking?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Off the wall hypothesis, but these raggedy, oblong flans make me wonder if they were made by some sort of rolling machine or rolling pin before striking. @dougsmit , do you know? Does anyone know?

    Trebonianus Gallus APOLL SALVTARI antoninianus.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus FELICITAS PVBLICA star antoninianus Rome.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus IVNO MARTIALIS Mediolanum antoninianus.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus LIBERTAS AVGG with star Rome antoninianus.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus LIBERTAS PVBLICA Milan antoninianus.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus SALVS AVGG Rome antoninianus.jpg

    Let's see your oblong coins! Post anything you feel is relevant.
     
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  3. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

  4. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Interesting theory! The shape does appear to have happened prior to striking, as you would think if made by striking it would emanate equally from the center. From my perspective, this phenomenon seems to appear less (or not at all) earlier on in the life of the antoninianus denomination, and then starts up around Gordian III—perhaps a new technology and technique was introduced?

    Here are some of my examples...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And is this an example?? I personally don't think so... though oblong, it doesn't seem uniformly oblong, like the others. I'm uncertain.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Archeocultura

    Archeocultura Well-Known Member

    9 nr 021 Hostilianus antoninianus Antiochia temple RIC 199c R.jpg IV-III Trebonianus Gallus 0038 Libertas 9-0078 cleaned.jpg V-I Gallienus 282 Gobl 712b var pegasus 9a-027.jpg V-I Valerianus 0087 gobl 73c 9a-0125.jpg

    I think they were flattened under a roller, indeed! Also looks like this was done in a limited period of time as for the various emperors featuring: Trebonianus Gallus up to Gallienus (at least amongst my coins).
     
  6. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I like that theory!! Antoniniani often have that rolled flan shape.

    I wonder if anything resembling rolling bars have been found in archaeological sites.
     
  7. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    This one seems to fit the pattern.

    Otacilia Severa Denarius with Concordia reverse.jpg

    Otacilia Severa (wife of Philip I) AR Antoninianus, 246-248 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Diademed and draped bust right, on crescent, M OTACIL SEVERA AVG/ Rev. Concordia seated left holding patera and double cornucopiae, CONCORDIA AVGG. RIC IV-3 125(c), RSC IV 4, Sear RCV III 9147 (ill. p. 173). 22x25 mm., 4.5 g.
     
  8. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    Don't miss out the New Style of Athens!
    [​IMG]
    Athens New Style Tetradrachm 146/5 BC
    Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet
    34 mm Thompson issue 18
    Thompson catalogue:Obs Gaziantep 146?:Rev NEW?
    Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic
    Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora
    below control mark ME
    2 magistrates : XAPΙ ΗPA
    RF symbol : Cock with Palm
    All within a surrounding olive wreath
     
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    We can find oval coins in many times and places if we look at enough coins.

    Maximinus II - Rome
    ru4120bb1616.jpg
    Mark Antony
    ra8380bb0342.jpg
    Septimius Severus - 'Emesa'
    rg0560bb1126.jpg
    Kyzikos (thanks, PeteB)
    g61530bb0096.jpg

    Of course, for some like this Persian siglos of Darius I, oval is normal.
    g71440fd0452.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  10. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    Very interesting!...
    normal_1-7NdPwNC39MbbGa5Ht2Dt8X3nJsT4G6_(1).jpg
    Philip II... AR Antoninianus 247-249AD(23mm, 4.29g, 1h). Rome, AD 247.
    Obverse..IMP PHILIPPUS AVG...Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    Reverse..PAX AETERNA...Pax standing left, holding olive branch and short sceptre.
    RIC IV 231c; RSC 23
     
  11. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Kyzikos?
     
    dougsmit likes this.
  12. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Philip Aequitas.jpg
    Philip I, AD 244-249, AR Antoninianus, Antioch mint
    Obv: IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
    Rev: AEQVITAS AVGG Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopiae
     
  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    ELONGATED / ERRATIC FLANS

    Oops...
    upload_2020-3-11_9-19-22.png
    RR AR Denarius ERROR BROCKAGE Q Fabius Labeo 124 BCE - ROMA X LABEO - Incuse and reverse of obverse Cr 273-1 Syd 532 Sear 148



    BAMM!
    Samnium Aesernia AE21 263-240 BCE HN Italy 430 Vulcan Left - Biga.JPG
    Samnium Aesernia AE21 263-240 BCE HN Italy 430 Vulcan Left - Biga


    Eh, 3rd Century, they were all messed up...
    RI Claudius II Gothicus 268-270 BI Ant Fortuna.jpg
    RI Claudius II Gothicus 268-270 BI Ant Fortuna


    Etruria Populonia 3rd C BCE AR 20 As 8.1g Metus Blank HN 152.jpg
    Etruria Populonia 3rd C BCE AR 20 As 8.1g Metus Blank HN 152


    RR Plaetorius Cest 67 BC AR Den Helmtd Diety quiv cornuc S-C Eagle tbolt S 349 Cr 409-1 VF.jpg
    RR Plaetorius Cest 67 BC AR Den Helmtd Diety quiv cornuc S-C Eagle tbolt S 349 Cr 409-1 VF


    upload_2020-3-11_9-28-44.png
    RImp Marc Antony & Octavian AR Quinarius 1.58g Military Mint Gaul 39BCE Concordia r Hands clasped caduceus Cr-529-4b Sear 1575 Syd-1195


    upload_2020-3-11_9-30-25.png
    LYCIA Dynast Perikles 380-360 BCE AR 1-3 Stater 20x14mm 2.8g Facing lion's scalp Triskeles BMC 157
     
  14. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    Here is a Crawford 164/1b, C. 179-170 BCE. with obvious oval shape:
    164-1b-Negrini.jpg
     
  15. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Interesting, ants in the Decius to Claudius II range do often seem have this sort of shape. Here's a later one, Diocletian (Antioch mint - these early issues are noted in RIC to be poor quality):

    Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 10.41.59 PM.jpg
     
    Johndakerftw, Bing, Andres2 and 2 others like this.
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