Two Omega 1907 $20 High Relief St Gaudens

Fake coins.

 

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Because the Omega is raised. It would be very difficult to just add an Omega. Plus, the whole reason there is an Omega on the coin is because of this guy's ego: the symbol is there as a mark of his work, which he took great pride in. It fed his ego that his fakes were nearly undetectable.

 

In a way it’s good he signed them. They’re about the best fakes I ever seen let’s hope the Chinese don’t get this good

 

You would think that at this point in time....with gold having gone from $20.67 an ounce to hundreds and then thousands of dollars per ounce....with the TPGs around to anybody knowledgeable in the field since the 1980's....that there shouldn't be that many raw ungraded 1907 HR's ? Yes ? No ?

I think that of the 12,000+ produced HR's that about 5,500 have been graded by a TPG ? I wonder what became of most of the ~7,000 HR's that never made it to a TPG.....overseas ? Lost ? Still in old people's safe deposit boxes or in 2X2's by folks who don't know what they have ?

Since this coin was preserved almost from Day 1, I'd almost expect the survival rate to be even HIGHER than the 5,500 or so that have hit the TPGs.

Maybe Burdette or Akers or Bowers has more detail somewhere that I should hit.

 

Between PCGS and NGC alone, there have been 8,000 grading events. I'm not sure about ANACS and ICG. No doubt, many of these are duplicates and re-grades.

Yes, I'm quite sure there are some overseas. I'm quite sure there are some that are in estates that have never traded.

However, you have to remember that there was a significant amount of gold surrendered in 1933. It was considered the patriotic thing to do. I'd suspect that much of the missing mintage was melted in the mania of 1933.

 

Thanks PF...I must have read that number and I didn't check the population census @ NGC and PCGS.

BTW....if someone crosses a coin from NGC to PCGS (or vice-versa) then the number goes UP for PCGS and NGC does NOT reduce it's total by 1 because it doesn't know someone crossed out, right ? So there could be double-counting if you just add up PCGS + NGC ?

My mother's grandmother had a coin or a few coins and I wonder based on what she told me if they were possibly a 1907 HR. It was worth more than the face amount of gold but her grandmother turned the coin in after FDR issued his edict.

But if you COLLECTED coins -- and if you had no intention of using one for circulation purposes I guess that might qualify -- weren't you exempt ? '

You had some serious bigtime collectors in the 1930's (Eliasburg ?) and I know they didn't rush to the local Federal Reserve Bank and turn over their substantial collections.

And you are right....my mother's grandparents considered it the patriotic thing to do. Quite frankly, I believe they and others like them were also afraid -- many didn't speak English and they weren't willing to take a chance on jail and/or deportation.

 

An "Omega" mark WAS NOT ADDED to genuine coins. That's plain silly.
In hindsight, those counterfeits are not even close to looking like a genuine piece. Note that there was something about them that prevented me from sending them out as genuine. That "something" was probably a gut reaction to the coins so that I knew there was something wrong but I didn't know what it was or even if the coins were not genuine. Each time I had decided they were probably genuine the pen would not move on my diagnostic sheet and I put them aside to study further.

"physics-fan3.14, posted: "Because the Omega is raised. (Actually, it is NOT RAISED on the counterfeits) It would be very difficult to just add an Omega. Plus, the whole reason there is an Omega on the coin is because of this guy's ego: the symbol is there as a mark of his work, which he took great pride in. It fed his ego that his fakes were nearly undetectable."

Mainebill, posted: "In a way it’s good he signed them. They’re about the best fakes I ever seen let’s hope the Chinese don’t get this good."

I hate to say this but within two years, the counterfeits were 100% better than anything Mr. Omega dad done previously. BTW, that was FORTY years ago. The best fakes today have fooled the TPGS. NONE of the fakes in the 70's ever did!

PS PCGS and NGC did not even exist back then!

 

I think I know who made the counterfeits with the Omega symbol.....Darkseid !!??

 

@GoldFinger1969

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

 

Here is a quality YouTube video by a young man who knows his stuff (a rarity on YT):

 

I am not sure that $300 MM in fakes got produced -- that's ALOT. Real 1907 HR's probably cost $1,00 - $5,000 back then depending on the grade. That was already 40-100x the price of gold bullion (pre-1973) so a heck of a markup.

Maybe only a few dozen or a few hundred got made ? Or maybe they're using current prices, and inflated ones at that (MS65-67 pricing) ?

 

juris klavins,

Thanks for posting this. There are several mistakes but it is good basic info. The worst of these is the statement that there are "Omega" $10 coins. Unfortunately, the storyteller did not know that the mark inside the "R" of "Liberty" on these coins is on the hub of genuine coins.

 

For those reading/posting on the updated Omega Thread....check out Page 1 on this one so you can see an actual Omega Saint in a slab.

I agree with Fred Weinberg: at most, a few hundred were made. The CU poster known as "TTTT" is way off on 20,000 being made. I'm not an expert on counterfeits or even on the Omegas, but I know enough about markets to realize you can't triple the supply and not see the effect on price.

 

Skip, so the Omega's WERE good counterfeits, right ?

I mean...you weren't 100% sure at the time...and I read that you needed a 40x power look under a scope to confirm your suspicions. Now, you weren't as knowledgeable 50 years ago as you are today but who knows, maybe even today coming in raw to a TPG a bunch slip through, huh ?

I mean, how many TPG graders today or yesteryear would have put a coin aside to reconsider....and then looked at it under a scope at 40x to see the defects you uncovered ? I wonder if the Omegas came out 20 years later if a bunch don't slip through. Even today, you wonder if PCGS, NGC, or even CACG would find the tiny defects you only saw under a scope.