Need a grading opinion on this commodus

Hi,

this is a RIC 219. I am not sure if I can consider it as a VF , what is you grading ?

I got always doubts on my grading particularly for commodus sets.




Is it fine to buy it 50 usd or it worth less ?

thanks for your help

 

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That's a nice coin and worth the price. I'd call it VF but struck with a worn reverse die. Grading is kinda loosey-goosey with ancients, because the usual system doesn't take into account centering, quality of strike, die damage and wear, etc.

Keep in mind that at this stage in Commodus' reign (AD 190-191), the denarii were debased and they weren't made of good silver. The portraits are low relief and often of poor style. This is actually a decent example of the type.

 

Thanks very interesting as that right that grading must be considered also to the period ans a specific coinage like it is for commodus.

 

I mean, here's the best the British Museum collection has to offer.

 

The price seems a little on the high side. Looking through Commodus denarii on Vcoins, similar coins in this condition are selling for a little cheaper. The example below, although different, is selling for $30:

 

Here's the example from my own collection. I bought it in 2017 from a Frank Robinson auction for $57, including shipping and PayPal surcharge.


Commodus, AD 177-192.
Roman AR denarius, 2.29 g, 17.2 mm, 7 h.
Rome, AD 191.
Obv: M COMM ANT P FEL AVG BRIT P P, laureate head, right.
Rev: CONC COM P M TR P XVI COS VI, Concordia standing left, holding patera and scepter.
Refs: RIC 219; BMCRE 296-97; RCV 5631; MIR 808; Cohen 45.

It happens to be a reverse die match to a different specimen in the British Museum, interestingly enough:

 

That right but this one seems to be porous or granular on the photo so the price is according to that to my opinion. I always avoid coins that look porous or with some possible problem. I prefer to pay a bit more.

That just my personal view, like said Doug after all the right question is always do I like this coin or not ? All of us we buy from auction only on photos , I buy to dealers too when not too far away from home as to see a coin is a must.

 

like you I will have bought this one even 10 usd more as shipping to Europe cost more.

 

I decided to look through my catalog to see the prices I paid for similar coins. I've become a little more discerning over the years, but I did find I have a similar coin for which I paid less than $30.

COMMODUS
AR Denarius
OBVERSE: M COMM ANT P FEL AVG BRIT PP, laureate head right
REVERSE: CONC COM P M TR P XVI COS VI, Concordia standing left, holding patera & scepter
Struck at Rome, 191 AD
2.5g, 17mm
RIC 219

And a completely different denarius in much better condition from a very reliable dealer for $15 shipped

COMMODUS
AR Denarius
OBVERSE: M COMMODVS ANTON AVG PIVS, laureate head right
REVERSE: TR P VIIII IMP VI COS IIII P P, Commodus as Pax standing left, togate, holding branch & cornucopia, hexagonal shield at foot
Struck at Rome, 183/4 AD
3.42g, 17mm
RIC 86

I have to admit, both above coins were purchased pre 2016, and prices for these may have changed slightly.

 

Wow, that was a very good deal on that RIC 86! I'd call that an exceptional bargain and not reflective of the market price, though.

 

I agree. But my point was, and is, that Commodus coins can be found fairly inexpensive. For $50 I would expect better condition. If not I would spend a little more to get one with better detail.

 

Great bargain, even now on EBay from a reliable seller Don’t know if you can have such prices. The best unit prices I saw was in bulk wholesale with mixt of Fine to VF around 10 to 15 usd each not included shipping.

 

Very nice Commodus - I'd say F-VF. Definitely a worn REV die. Congrats.

 

I just don’t even consider, nor care about grading as a condition when I capture a coin. Rather, “do I like it?”, “does it Historically compel me?”, “is it cool?”

Grading is a waste of time, and way too subjective for my collecting wants.

I leave grading to the Modern Coin commodity people who are more concerned for a coin's commodity worth, vs. truly collecting as a hobby.

Next.

Commodus

RI Commodus 177-192 CE AR Denarius 17.7mm 2.42g Apollo Plectrum Lyre RIC 218 RSC 25 BMCRE 292 Rare Type



RI Commodus 177-192 CE AR Denarius laureate hd and Hercules and Africa

 

An interesting discussion. And some great coins.

I really like the coins of Commodus, and as several have noted, his coins are abundant on the market. They also vary wildly in style, fabric, and strike. Mostly what I look for is a good portrait - the OP has a fair-to-middling late-reign portrait, but not outstanding. And so here are my opinions and coins, based on about 3 years collecting these (which is to say I am no expert)...

First off, as a bottom-feeder, I would not pay $50 for the OP, even though I do not have that one in my collection. Mostly this is because I almost never spend $50 on a single coin - that violates the Bottom Feeder Code of Conduct. But that might be typical retail - I don't really know since I don't shop retail.

As for the grade, heck if I know. VF with a mushy strike? Something like that. It would certainly be a coin I'd snap up for $10 or $15 in an eBay auction, but I am not crazy about its style - especially the portrait, though it is typical for a lot of Commodus' later coins. The reverse has a certain panache however, and a full inscription - not bad at all!

While I don't have the OP, I do have a Concordia, with the unusual CONCORDIAE COMMODI reverse. I paid $19 off eBay - a deal, I think. This one is, in my opinion, a lower grade than the OP (VG?), but a much finer style - I love the portrait - despite the wear, it has a fully-rounded, statue-like look - compare this with the OP's rather crude rendering around the eye and nose - a kind of shortcut "gash" you see on a lot of these:



Commodus Denarius
(c. 189 A.D.)
Rome Mint
M COMM ANT P FEL AVG BRIT P P, laureate head right / CONCORDIAE COMMODI
AVG, Concordia standing left, holding patera & scepter.
RIC 198a; Cohen 43; RSC 43.
(3.09 grams / 17 mm)

Hope I'm not sounding like an art professor here...but I'm feeling artsy or something today...and so I will persist...

Here is a denarius with a portrait of the late style similar to the OP - very crude. However, it has a rather unusual imperial reverse - Serapis. And it was under $10. So I bought it - but I do not care for the portrait, which suffers from a poor strike and wear, a very ugly obverse. If somebody told me it was a barbaric copy, I wouldn't argue with them, although the reverse is a better style:



Commodus Denarius
(191-192 A.D.)
Rome Mint
L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, laureate head right / SERAPIDI CONSERV AVG,
Serapis, radiate, standing front, head left, holding branch and sceptre.
RIC 261; Sear 5695; RSC 703.
(2.56 grams / 16 mm)

On the other hand, here is an example of a late Commodus of low grade, but to me with great eye-appeal - mostly because of the portrait - which provides that loutish, somehow bathetic version of Marcus Aurelius look I really like. This is a good (bad?) example of the crude fabric to be found on late Commodus denarii. Flan preparation was not a priority, but there were still some master engravers working at the mint:



Commodus Denarius
(190-191 A.D.)
Rome Mint
M COMM ANT P FEL A[VG BRIT P P], laureate head right / [MIN AVG] P M TR P XVI
COS VI, Minerva walking right, holding branch in right hand, spear and shield in left.
RIC 222a; Sear 5661; RSC 358.
(2.46 grams / 18 x 16 mm)

Here's one I do not like much in regards to its style. It had other things about it I liked - a Liberalitas reverse, which interests me, as they can sometimes be attributed to actual coin distribution events. Despite the wear, it is unusually heavy for a Commodus denarius (in my limited experience), but the style is rather crude, with a youthful but lumpy portrait. The deal-maker on this one was that I paid $2.75 for it, which for me is bottom-feeding at its best - that might be it's melt value!



Commodus Denarius
(181 A.D.)
Rome Mint
M COMMODVS ANTONINVS AVG, laureate head right. / LIB AVG IIII TR P VI IMP IIII COS III [PP], Liberalitas standing left holding counting board and cornucopiae.
RIC 22; RSC 307; BMC IV 53
(3.28 grams / 17 mm)

Note:
"Struck 181 A.D., and distributed to the people, when Commodus returned to Rome." Wildwinds

"Reverse depicts the 4th distribution of money to the people of Rome." FORVM post.

Finally, this post gives me an excuse to post a new sestertius I just got - a fairly early issue, with the portrait less loutish, looking a bit more like his dad - but despite the wear, it there was some fine die-work with the portrait, which has a very Marcus Aurelius look to it - the young prince:


Commodus Æ Sestertius
(183 A.D.)
Rome Mint
M COMMODVS AN[TONINVS AVG PI]VS, laureate head right / [TR P VIII IMPVI COS IIII P P] S-C, Victory walking right, holding trophy with both hands.
RIC 374; Cohen 898; Sear 5821.
(19.87 grams / 28 mm)

I thought about giving my opinions about Commodus the ruler - I think he got a bad rap from history. But instead I'll shut up now!

 

I respectfully disagree about grading. In ancients, the grade is what details are on the coin. The fact the reverse die was worn, the fact the mint might have been sloppy in that timeframe, is irrelevant. There are coins that left the mint VG. Nothing wrong with that. The graver error is to call a VG a VF "because of X".

I grade all ancients the same, knowing certain coins are rarer in higher grades, but never grade looser just because the mint was making poor coins then.

 

Huh. Inspired by this thread I just did a troll through eBay for Commodus and found right off the bat RIC 219 - just like the OP (if the attribution is correct). It is a buy-it-now for $14.90 plus shipping, but it is in the Ukraine.

Eye appeal is similar to the OP, but note the very low weight - 1.92 grams. Not unheard of for one of these, but it might be a "limes" example.

I promise I have utterly nothing to do with the sale of this coin - or the Ukraine! - just mentioning it for pricing interest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodus-A...176073?hash=item1ce496db49:g:XvkAAOSwwppeUiM2

 

Thanks for explaining that.

 

Strange 1.92 grams it is a big gap compare to common weight ?? All of you did have heard of so light weight for commodus déniarius ?