A fellow collector in his ebay novice days was taken in by one of those NIC-NAC types of shady graders. The coin to me looks like it is in mint state, just not MS-65. The guy took his quarter-eagle Indian-head to a dealer, who just by virtue of the shady grader slab's name, completely discounted the coin and did not even want to look at it. Poor Indian-head! So, the question is, is it better to crack the slab and keep it raw in a flip, or send it out for regrading in the shady graded slab it's in?
Tough question. I'd ask someone to see if it can even be graded, that is, is it cleaned? or whatever. Why waste more money. Raw would probably be better.
I can tell you that many of the "shady" graders use slabs that are easily opened, I have opened them with my thumb nail. At least they make it easy, unlike NGC and PCGS, those are a pain to crack.
Here is the issue that the dealer was faced with. Somebody brings in a coin "slabbed" MS65. The dealer knows without looking at the coin as most of us here in CT would that the coin has been overgraded and chances are good that the person paid way to much for it. The dealer makes a statement like this coin is overgraded. Customer says your trying to rip me off. Or the dealer might look at it and say I will give you X amount which is probably close to MS60 prices. Again, Joe customer says your a rip of. OR, the dealer tells them the truth that the coin is overgraded and you probably paid alot more than its really worth. Again, Joe customer says.. YEP you got it. the dealer is a rip off. Most dealers that I know hate seeing people come in with 10th tier graded coins. They are in a lose/lose situation. Break it out and most dealers will give you a fair price and it takes the tension out of the transaction. If you dont like the price they offer, take it home and reinsert it in your 20 cent graded holder.
I have to admit, I own coins in PCGS and NGC slabs that I bought for the coin and not the stupid grade, in my opin thus, they are overgraded. All TPG's overgrade in my opin, some just do it a lot more regularly. I do not own many TPG coins, I have been known to crack them out: This coin was something like VF-30 or something, WHATEVER! Buy the coin not the stupid overpriced plastic.
indeed! Thanks for that picture... Queen Anne is lovely in any grade in which you can still see her. The fellow who has the quarter-eagle does say that he did intuitively follow your advice. He says that he liked the coin's appearance-- it did not have scratches suggesting cleaning and did seem BU. It turns out that the price of the "MS-65" was more like the price of an MS-62 which apparently was a big difference. So, I don't think having reviewed the situation that he was taken for much money-- perhaps the difference between wholesale and fair market price? I passed on the advice that he should take it out of the holder and see what a friendly dealer might say about its gradability and its grade.
I agree with Jim. Of course, you might have a local dealer who knows you. My coin dealer wouldn't have any problem at all laughing and telling me I was taken by someone if I brought in something like this. But, at least they're honest with me. All that cheap slab is doing in the meantime is keeping the dust off your coin. I'd crack it out to get a real grading opinion on it. Guy~
A dealer would be able to get a better look at the coin if not in a slab. At least that's what mine said with a 3c silver in an ngs slab. It can be hard to see the rims,edge etc.
Whats all the fuss about shady TPGs. The way I see it, the majority of coin dealers are allowing NGC and PCGS to create monopoly in TPG market, which IMO is bad because if there is no competion they can be careless about the quality of service they provide. Why small players are given such a cold shoulder when even the top rated TPGs overgrade the coins? Spock has shown me number of examples where PCGS and NGC made mistake even labelling the correct denomination of foreign coins inspite of all the information in the coin was in English. People should not be guided only by what a TPG's label shows but use common grading sense. I for one don't like my coins inside plastic and always buy them raw barring 1 coin which I bought recently.
why worry about grading companies? I appreciate your point of view. In the U.S. as opposed to other places, slabbed coins are often the only way to be able to get the fairest prices if you are selling coins. Indeed, individuals take advantage of this... The shady grader mentioned above may well be the following that I found on another coin discussion group site: http://www.coinmadz.com/servlet/the-INDIAN-GOLD-$5.00/Categories If you were the naive novice collector mentioned above, it would be pretty enraging to have been taken in by deceptive advertising... Look at the coins on that site and see what you all think. This is just one of many, unfortunately.
Aww dude.... you have forsaken the righteousness. Your day of doom surely awaits you. Shave your head, and dawn your sackcloth. Maybe in this way you will be redeemed prior to your assured longsuffering. I would buy more raw coins if my local coin dealer didn't have such raw deals. Really, he is a dishonest old grouch that overcharges sooo much for CRAP COINS. Consequently, I have been banished to the internet to find coins. I have used a bunch of the auction sites.... Heritage gets way too much attention, which makes good deals/ wholesale prices very very hard to come by. I pretty much stick to DLRC.... They have a habit of lowering the reserve when they just want to get rid of something, and I have recieved excellent deals this way. Also... take a look at some of the DGS coins they sell. IMO DGS graded coins represent a good deal in the marketplace compared to other slabs.
It is not the coin dealers that are creating the monopoly, it is the self slabbers themselves. The third world TPG's (NNC, NAC etc) have created an atmosphere that has ruined customer confidence in TPG's. Only PCGS and NGC by virtue of their strict grading standards (not carelessness) have been able to survive this loss in confidence in the marketplace. As a result, they are considered the only really respectable grading companies, hence the monopoly you are talking about. Grading is subjective and we all understand that. Everybody always states that both NGC and PCGS also overgrade coins. While this may be true to an extent, I think that those examples are market graded or are only overgraded by one grade, two grades in rare instances. I would challenge anyone to show an NGC or PCGS slabbed coin that is overgraded by 3 grades. The third world TPG's and self slabbers routinely overgrade coins by 3-5 grades and are the cause of the erosion in consumer confidence. With respect to World Coins, I think it is understandable that some mistakes will be made due to language and alphabetic barriers that exist. I would guess that any mistake made brought to the attention of NGC or PCGS would be corrected free of charge. While the advice, buy the coin not the plastic is applauded by the numismatic community, it is not very realistic, and in my opinion, not prudent when dealing with PCGS or NGC coins for the average collector. Unless you are a very advanced collector with expert grading abilities and extensive knowledge of the coin series in question, there is a very good chance that the expert graders at PCGS and NGC will be able to grade your coin in 3 seconds with more accuracy than the collector. Here is my advice. If you are a novice, average, or even a seasoned collector, trust the grades by NGC and PCGS and continue your numismatic education so that you may someday be in a position to correctly evaluate (criticize) the opinion of the professional graders. If you are an expert collector or dealer, buy the coin not the plastic. Now let the flames begin.
I fully agree with you Lehigh :high5:......My only point was that every TPG should be given a chance and should not be boycotted solely because of their past mistakes because you never know, they might actually improve over years. Regarding flames.....No chance, I'm peace loving guy.
Or get worse. And geting worse is by far the more common ocurrence. However, should one of the lower tier TPG's suddenly begin to grade coins accurately, it would be noticed immediately and all over every forum there is. But I sure wouldn't want to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
Companies don't grade coins. People grade coins. I think it's tough for a new TPG to gain respect unless the knowledgeable collectors and dealers in the industry know who the graders are and respect their individual reputation and abilities.
Anybody gotten any DGS coins yet..... Anyone disappointed? I have 3 so far, and think they are all pretty accurate. In fact all three look very nice, and one is definitely very PQ for the grade. I have a CBH I'm almost positive would upgrade anywhere I sent it.
