1998-P Proof ASE, AT?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020.

?

Which type of toning is this? Artificial Toning (AT) or Natural Toning (NT)

  1. AT

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%

  2. NT

    9 vote(s)
    75.0%

  3. Unsure

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
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  1. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I would love to hear your thoughts and reasoning for this coin here. I came across this just now online being sold for $2,500. I immediately assumed AT, but I'm often a pessimist. Everyone's input is welcome. I have asked for better photos of the reverse, these are the 8 photos available at this moment.
    86464775_10218984565223477_6201647666904956928_n.jpg 85138316_10218984564903469_8020457314785951744_n.jpg 84759335_10218984564423457_6361372544250937344_n.jpg 85067316_10218984564023447_5836104722624282624_n.jpg 85219861_10218984563623437_7147230200823021568_n.jpg 85013052_10218984563143425_3051448855057924096_n.jpg 84755152_10218984562663413_440986999772413952_n.jpg 85250812_10218984562303404_44515467712266240_n.jpg
    @physics-fan3.14 @robec @desertgem @GDJMSP
    @Jack D. Young
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020
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  3. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Two new photos added to the listing.

    FB_IMG_1581311496818.jpg FB_IMG_1581311487426.jpg
     
    Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020
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  4. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    Sorry for that kind of money, I sure would buy something else.
    Like a type 1 $20 Liberty or a 1900 O/CC High grade Morgan, on and on.
     
    dwhiz, Feb 10, 2020
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  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    NT, it must have toned in the slab. PCGS is a pain with toning, and if there was ANY question, they would have AT's it
     
    Treashunt, Feb 10, 2020
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  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I went with NT. Pretty coin to me but $2500 is too much.
     
    ldhair, Feb 10, 2020
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  7. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Obviously the price is ludicrous and I wouldn't buy it for a tenth of that price.

    However, the toning looks NT. Silver eagles are known for wild toning. Remember, they are 100% silver instead of the 90% of normal coins - their toning patterns are going to be different. I don't see any immediate indicators on this coin that would point to AT. Now, its possible that its just a really good AT job, but I don't think so.
     
    physics-fan3.14, Feb 10, 2020
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It could easily be NT or AT. Toning similar to that is not at all difficult to cause to happen in a matter of hours. And since ASEs are prone to toning very quickly it could have happened in a completely natural setting in a year or two, or longer.
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 10, 2020
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  9. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I had no intention of buying, just trying to learn. The fact that it was an ASE, and proof at that, had me scratching my head.
     
    Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020
    #8 + Quote Reply
  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Lot of money for corrosion. This toning fad is getting pretty stupid.
     
    TypeCoin971793, Feb 10, 2020
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  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    May I ask why it had you scratching your head ? I mean is there some reason that you think ASEs, Proof or business strike, can't tone like that ?
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 10, 2020
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  12. UncleScroge

    UncleScroge Well-Known Member

    Probably scratching his head at the outrageous price.
     
    UncleScroge, Feb 10, 2020
    #11 + Quote Reply
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  13. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    The thought behind it was that any other coin (like a Morgan) that exhibited such toning would most likely be AT. My gut reaction was to say AT, but then recognizing that it's an ASE and proof at that, meant there was a possibility of being NT.

    Edit: the coin has already sold! :jawdrop:
     
    Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020
    #12 + Quote Reply
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I wish I had that kind of money to waste...
     
    TypeCoin971793, Feb 10, 2020
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  15. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Me too, but if I did, I'd be wasting it elsewhere.
     
    Seattlite86, Feb 10, 2020
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  16. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Same
     
    TypeCoin971793, Feb 10, 2020
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  17. Chuck_A

    Chuck_A Well-Known Member

    Definitely!
     
    Chuck_A, Feb 10, 2020
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  18. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

     
    Cheech9712, Feb 10, 2020
    #17 + Quote Reply
  19. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Cheech9712, Feb 10, 2020
    #18 + Quote Reply
  20. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    The pink makes me guess AT
     
    Cheech9712, Feb 10, 2020
    #19 + Quote Reply
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  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK, but I'm still curious, why ? What is it about that type of toning that makes you think AT ?

    I mean if ya know how toning works ya know it's progressive, meaning it starts out at the lighter colored end of the spectrum and gradually darkens as it progresses. And it usually starts at the outer edges of the coin, not always, but it usually does. And typically the color pattern will repeat, although sometimes certain colors are skipped in the progression pattern. And that's exactly what we see on this coin.

    On both obv and rev the toning at the outer edges has reached or nearly reached the terminal stage since it's that toning that's been there the longest, flowing through lighter colors as you move towards the center of the coin. And the same thing typically happens on Proofs and business strikes alike though the "look" will be different because of the differences in types of luster.

    Now of course these toning patterns can vary because of the differences in the various storage methods. If a coin is surrounded by cardboard at the outer edges, one of the most common methods, then the toning usually starts at the edges. It also starts at the edges when hard plastic holders and/or coin tube are used. If a coin is placed in an envelope or wrapped in tissue paper that toning can start anywhere. Same thing when a flip is used.

    In other words, everything about the toning on this coin screams completely normal. And that's the reason for my questions.
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 11, 2020
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