Hi all, I'm new on the site - really looks like a great group of people and some really useful information! I apologize in advance if there is a lengthy discussion on this topic that I've overlooked (I kind of imagine there probably is but I can't seem to find it). I've read a little bit about this subject in the FAQ forum, but I was just wondering if anyone might have a little further advice regarding detecting coins that will come back "cleaned" from PCGS/NGC (dipping doesn't seem to be a problem) - I have had this problem on multiple occasions and can't for the life of me reliably detect whether a coin has been "cleaned" to the extent that it will end up in the body bag from PCGS. Is there some threshold at which point they call it "cleaned"? There have certainly been some that have seemed quite obvious (MS detail coins with clear parallel hairlines and a lack of cartwheel luster), but some don't seem to (at least that I can tell?). Any further insight would be very much appreciated! Thanks for your time and it's great to be here. -Jon
Welcome to the forum !!! I'll help a little bit with the copper coins.....any pinkish or orangy color can indicate dipping, and remember to look for a polished shine, even a little bit. A light dirt removal will not BB a coin, but a scrubbing will for sure. Experiment yourself with some junkers, and compare with coins you have not messed with. You will soon start to see the indicators, and posting pics here will get you lots of help !!
Detecting harshly cleaned coins, and it is important to note that it is harshly cleaned coins that you need to worry about, can be one of the more difficult things to learn. It really requires experience more than anything else. But there are a few tell-tale signs to watch for. Perhaps some of the most obvious are light scratches or fine lines on the coin, sometimes all over the coin, other times in just specific areas. Another would be traces of dirt and grime in the protected areas and none anywhere else. Still another would be a lack of luster on a coin that should have luster based on the amount of wear or lack of wear it has.
Really, really light cleaning can be hard to detect and sometimes will be apparently there if it isn't, or vice versa. With harsh cleaning, it's pretty easy...usually impaired luster on higher grade coins combined with a lot of small scratches. Sometimes, you will need to look under a magnifying glass. If there's an unusual amount of dirt in 'protected' areas on the coin, this is immediately suspicious, BUT this can be exaggerated in photos by very high contrast. 'Brightness' on a worn coin is also fairly suspicious. Dipped coins usually have a dull luster, dull pink for copper. A worn copper coin with apparent shine is usually cleaned, but there can be uneven toning at AU and up with some luster remaining. I'd say the worst are the lightly cleaned, hard to detect especially in photos, and can just as easily get you a bodybag.
IMHO, good advice is don't buy raw coins with indistinct pictures, like on Ebay. Try to buy from dealers that you have had good experience with. Coin collecting can be a minefield. By NGC/PCGS certified coins until you can recognize cleaned and hairlined coins.
As said it can be a tough call on a lightly cleaned coin. Sometimes they will call it cleaned just because they see a small patch of hairlines even though they may not be from a cleaning. And I firmly believe that if a grader is getting behind on his daily quota they will catch up by simply randomly going "bodybag, bodybag, bodybag. . ." in order to catch up. After all the company still gets paid, and in fact the coins will often be resubmitted so the company gets paid twice to assign a grade to the coin. He gets caught up an it helps the companies bottom line. In other words, sometimes a "cleaned" bodybag is assigned for no rational reason.
Yeah, I've seen some like this, and I've seen some that should have gotten the bodybag when they didn't. Wouldn't be surprised at all. However, unfortunately some sellers will take advantage of the subjectivity of what is 'very light' cleaning and try to sell blatantly cleaned coins as problem-free. As in, obvious hairlines, shined up, the whole nine yards.
