Mars or Constantine?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gavin Richardson, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    So I was reading around about the reverse legend MARTI PATRI CONSERVATOR, which appears on early folles of Constantine, ca. 307. In the old DICTIONARY OF ROMAN COINS I read this:

    upload_2020-1-27_16-44-59.png

    I was particularly curious about the possibility that “the features and helmet of Constantine himself are plainly to be recognized.” If the Beger here is Lorenz Beger (d. 1705), that’s a pretty old authority. The reverse figure on this coin seems to be the same figure as on other Mars coinage, such as the Marti Propvgnatori coins. Does anyone subscribe to the view that this reverse figure is Constantine, or does the conventional wisdom prevail that the figure indeed is Mars?

    [​IMG]


    This lovely example of the coin in question is one that @gsimonel had posted to another thread on this board.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Mars. To see anything else given the MARTI PATRI CONSERVATORI inscription strikes me as the product of an overactive imagination.
     
    Alegandron, dougsmit, thejewk and 3 others like this.
  4. Luke B

    Luke B Active Member

    An interesting idea. I view the figure on these coins as Mars much in the same way as other "conservatori" coins for Jupiter and such. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Constantine to be representing himself as Mars, however Constantine also minted coins with a bust of Mars on the reverse at the mint of Trier (with a similar helmet I think).

    I am more inclined to believe it is in fact Mars on the reverse.
     
    thejewk, TIF and Gavin Richardson like this.
  5. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    I would also go with Mars instead of Constantine.
    ri215.jpg
    ri246.jpg
     
  6. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I think it's Mars as well.
     
    Gavin Richardson likes this.
  7. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Thanks folks. I wholeheartedly concur. I guess Lorenz was a hack. :troll::happy:
     
    thejewk and Roman Collector like this.
  8. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    I'd say it's Mars all day, but I am developing a fondness for eccentric old numismatists who make wild claims without backing them up. Like Stukeley and his Oriuna fantasy.

    It reminds me of the 'Orientalists' who translated the Thousand Nights and One Night. Many mysterious manuscripts that were magically found and then disappeared without a trace when the 'translating' was done.
     
    Gavin Richardson likes this.
  9. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    You have to wonder how many of these coins he would have seen in person. There may well be some examples where you could make this extrapolation but you would have to want to see it. I have or have owned about 100 Mars coins of Constantine and could not draw this conclusion from any of them.
     
  10. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I think Berger came from the planet MARS, making him by birth a Martian :greyalien:.
     
    Gavin Richardson likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page